moonbattery.gif


« Obama Adopts Healthcare Ideas He Condemned McCain For | Main | Fiber Artists Unite Against ManBearPig »


June 15, 2009

Turning America Into Detroit

The Collins Report will raise the hair on the back of your neck with its analysis of Obama's plans to bulldoze the slums inhabited by his political base:

The headline says, "US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive." For whose survival?
Obama's plan to teardown big city slums like Flint and Detroit is just a trick to move Black Democrats to areas where their votes will swing more Congressional seats to the socialists. He couldn't care less about the poor Blacks in these cities; they're only votes to him.
Obama wants to build government housing in the suburbs and move thousands of his Black voters into these new government gulags where their votes will count more. He sees no value in 90% plus Democrat victories in Flint and Detroit when he could move thousands of those votes into nearby Republican held districts in Brighton and Livonia and win them as well.
He will do this and of course we'll pay for his scheme.
Obama won't have to raze suburban homes to do this. He will rely on "White Flight" to clear out the last stubborn pockets of conservatives and let ACORN's urban shock troops do the rest to flip surrounding Republican Congressional seats one by one.
The Leftist media can chase the truth around trying to kill it, but the truth is: Barack Obama is a Marxist. His public consideration of forced relocations, (a policy Karl Marx would see as his "dialectical materialism", using material things to change social policies) is terrifying in the extreme.
America's cities are filled with people who willingly sell their liberty for a few government handouts. When ACORN orders these kneejerk Democrat voters onto buses for forced relocation to suburban Republican districts they will go. They know their "duty" is to vote where they are told as often as ordered to. Obama will be hailed as a great visionary who redesigned America brick by brick and city by city.
If Obama's "shrink to survive" strategy to "save" America is implemented it will give the Democrats a huge advantage that they will never relinquish. This will end the Republican Party and with that, any chance to stop or roll back the damage from Barack Obama.

Population relocations are not a new idea. Obama's predecessors Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot were infamous for imposing them.

We were chased out of our cities, which liberals have made into festering chancres where the Democrat vote approaches 100%. Now we'll be chased out of the suburbs.

detroit-ruins.jpg
Liberals' ultimate objective: turn the whole country into Detroit.

On tips from Oiao and mega.

Posted by Van Helsing at June 15, 2009 9:18 AM

Comments

How are those suburban projects working out for them in Europe? Oh, right, pretty badly.

I remember when I was a student wondering how Rome could possibly go from being the center of the civilized world to being a small, mostly abandoned barbarian village. Well, we're seeing it, except this time it's a suicide. It took Rome hundreds of years to go down, and we're going to pull it off in a generation or two.

Posted by: forest at June 15, 2009 9:48 AM

That picture gives me the distinct mental image of the 20th Century Motor Company in Atlas Shrugged.

Posted by: Eric at June 15, 2009 9:51 AM

White flight is "nature" and these idiots can't even figure out, nevermind fight "nature". They might mess us up for a while but I think they're overplaying their hand.

Posted by: Mr Evilwrench at June 15, 2009 9:52 AM

I was thinking the exact same thing, Eric.

Posted by: Henry at June 15, 2009 10:05 AM

Has he got enough of his tribal boogers to go around?

Posted by: Shooter1001 at June 15, 2009 10:12 AM

Looks kinda like the old Packard factory that can be found in this collection of Detroit photos:

http://bestyoulike.com/2007/04/19/the-dying-city-of-detroit/

Posted by: forest at June 15, 2009 10:16 AM

I've lived in the Detroit area since I was very young. I'd rather drive to Chicago or fly to Dallas if I want to visit a city than go to Detroit. Detroit has been a pit since I can remember, and it is worse today than it was 20 years ago.

Posted by: LoneWolfArcher at June 15, 2009 10:21 AM

Some liberal judge in Allegheny County PA (contains Pittsburgh - City of Champions! - Steelers and Penguins are pretty much all thats good about it any more) started doing this years ago. They relocated public housing in city to houses in the suburbs - naturally crime, graffiti, drugs and violence are on the rise in the burbs. And then they tore down or imploded public housing built in the 70s after the residents trashed the buildings. The smart ones are relocating to other counties.

Posted by: John Wilkes Phone Booth at June 15, 2009 10:24 AM

As far as population relocation, believe it or not it has already begun to occur. As more Detroiter move into the closer subarbs, affluent working people continue to move further and further out. Eventually all the affluent workers will just move completely out of Michigan. I have considered a move to Utah or Arizone myself.

Posted by: LoneWolfArcher at June 15, 2009 10:24 AM

Build housing projects.

Buy homes and duplexes.

Move uneducated drunks, dopers, crack whores and other lowlifes and losers into same.

Neighborhoods become viral zones of shootings, gangs, drug dealing, and constant crime.

Working folks move their families elsewhere.

Rinse.

Repeat.

Eventually this will bring a positive outcome. Right?? Right?

Posted by: chuck in st paul at June 15, 2009 10:27 AM

It's happened in DC also. It's called Prince Georges County. And the commutes get further and further as the people with jobs and income move away from the crime and graffiti brought by the people without.

Posted by: Nancy at June 15, 2009 11:46 AM

No, no, we just need more liberal policies, that's all. To fix the problems caused by the first round of liberal policies.

Chuck, you should hear a neighbor of mine - a black dentist - talk about this. He sounds like he's join the KKK if they'd let him.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 15, 2009 11:47 AM

I live in Flint; in the so-called evil North end. This whole thing is getting amusing. The people in the more affluent areas don't want the "undesirables" in their neighborhoods, and the people in the 'hoods say they aren't moving. The so-called "bad" areas aren't all bad. There are plenty of blocks with well kept houses & lawns, with no trash strewn anywhere.
The original plan put forward was to cut off police & fire protection.to areas with low population density & use that to persuade people to move. This may be why we've lost 75 police officers to layoffs and retirements, and the fire dept. is so short on manpower they have to send every rig in the city to every fire to get the needed manpower.

Posted by: Dave at June 15, 2009 11:59 AM

Does this mean we can have the cities back?

Posted by: mandy at June 15, 2009 12:33 PM

It is in full force here in the GayBay San Franfreakshow area of north CA.

They are moving low income, no job, unemployables (those that refuse to work, except for making babies) out to the areas of new housing (since the market dropped) to spread the, um, vote.

Crime, domestic calls, ambulance calls for anti 'to fat to waddle her b ass to the car' people.

Meanwhile, the Po-Lice are overwhelmed and do not respond.

Only a matter of time when U.S. Justice resorts to 1880 plains versions of you piss me off, you are dead. Even the liberals are buying weapons here.

Posted by: Oiao at June 15, 2009 12:48 PM


www.firedavidletterman.com

Posted by: Spread the Word at June 15, 2009 1:12 PM

Recently, I spent several weeks in Chicago with a liberal friend of mine, who was raised in a conservative Republican family. While there, we went to Evergreen Park on the southside to see where she grew up. She made a strange comment that I would never hear her say here in "progressive" Oregon. As we were driving through the main drag and shopping areas, she said, "you would NEVER have seen this when I grew up here in the fifties and sixties" What she was commenting on, was the black folks walking around with shopping bags in their hands. A strange comment from a liberal I thought. But the thing that struck me when we walked around her old neighborhood, to see the house she grew up in, was how many American flag were flying in front of homes. Seemed like every other home proudly flew our national symbol of greatness. You rarely see this where I live in Oregon, by the way. Stranger still, is how many of these homes were inhabited by black families. My liberal friend then said, "if you've never seen a black (yes she said black, not "Afro-American") Republican, take a good look now, because these people are it. My guess is that these folks escaped their former environment to raise their kids in better surrounding than they grew up in. Kind of reminds me of my parents, who were from that great generation that went through the depression and fought for our liberty during WW2.

Posted by: William at June 15, 2009 1:15 PM

This was a great plan:

A large river separated a peaceful college campus of around 20,000 and their local businesses from a seething ghetto with x number of murders every year.
The city's solution?
Build a footbridge connecting the two communities.
The result?
A single community with x + y number of murders every year.

Another liberal legacy.

Posted by: Fiberal at June 15, 2009 2:44 PM

Hey, I'm as anti-Obama as anyone. But this sounds to me more like one of those crazy conspiracy theories we always criticise the Lunatic Left for coming up with.

Obama wants to tear down slums - isn't that exactly what urban-renewal proponents, a great many of them Republicans, have been asking for for decades now (though maybe not by the Federal Government - but that's another issue)? If Bush did it, there would be no complaints.

The article also claims that "White Flight" will transform Republican strongholds into Democratic fortresses. Maybe. But where will those Republican voters go? Into another predominatly white neighbourhood, which will then be made into another Republican stronghold, perhaps even won over from white Democrat voters. I don't think the author has really thought his premise through.

He also makes the mistake of assuming that African-Americans (disguised here with the euphemism "Kneejerk Democrats") cannot think for themselves - that they'll blindly go wherever the Demcorats lead. Conservatives have to get over thinking about black Americans as slaves of the Democrats, unable to make a rational decision through their own free will, if they ever want to entice them over to the GOP. The Republican Party is open to everybody, regardless of race, sex, creed, economic status, education, or colour, in a way that the Democrats are not. The problem is convincing people of that fact. And articles like these, which will be pointed to (wrongly) by Democrats as evidence that the GOP is actually some evil racist empire, do not help.

Posted by: alex at June 15, 2009 4:18 PM

Over on the official Open Thread blog of the DNC website, the rat's nest of true socialism, communism and Moonbattery, there is much support of The One's national health care plans. This would be yet another step in the direction of taking America down the path of socialism.

For example, this comment by a frequent poster PamB. She is a dyed-in-the-wool supporter of socialism and all it entails. In her own words:

Sandy, I lived on the Canadian border for 18 years, and trust me, if Canadians were asked which system they wanted, our's (37th in the world) or their own, they would choose their own.

The old days of the American employer's plan covering every dollar of a hospital stay, outside of the telephone, are long gone. Replaced with Referrals, Networks, deductibles, coinsurances and RX drugs that if they are not 'Preferred" by the insurance company, you can pay a huge copay for.

Countries with Socialized medicine, are happy as pigs in doo-doo with their plans. They may pay the government as much as 60-70% of their pay but they are taken care of from birth to grave. And they do not mind paying for it.

16 PamB on June 15, 2009 at 04:18 PM
http://www.democrats.org/cgi-bin/mt-comments.cgi


Posted by: Harpo-Not_A_Marxist at June 15, 2009 4:29 PM

they would choose their own

Did Sandy happen to ask “PamB” how many Canadians cross the border to the US to receive healthcare, and how many go the opposite direction? Or did that thought not intrude upon her central ganglion?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 15, 2009 4:56 PM

I find it ironic that for a group so called "Pro-America" types want parts of America to fail. I have seen in the past weeks quotes such as "bulldoze Dertroit, Baltimore and Philly", I have seen "Nuke San Franfreakshow" and numerous remarks about Berkley. If it's housing or healthcare, wouldn't being "Pro-American" include all of America? The current economic crisis does not care what your ideology is, people are losing their jobs and in turn losing their homes or healthcare because they cannot keep up, and this did not start in January. We are seeing the consequences of Republican slogans now..."tax cuts" and "free market", we are going to also see consequences of the Bush and Obama bailouts down the road. The big difference is, President Bush and President Obama recognized that by not allowing the bottom to drop out, some jobs would be saved. The former in my opinion recognized it a bit late, but better late than never.

As for Detroit, yes, it easy to pick out ruined area, but ignoring the efforts of Karmanos and Illitch is as deliberate as it is foolish. Looking at the renovations of Fox Town, the New Center Area, The Casinos, and the work that has been started in Corktown is a sign of Detroit's return. Alex made a great point, that this story from a U.K. paper nonetheless, is serving only to advance the paranoia of the flying monkey right.

As for the conspiracy that things are being done to move African-Americans to Republican districts is asinine. Metro Detroit's districts cover pretty diverse areas. Thaddeus McCotter's stronghold of the 11th District includes the very diverse Redford Township, Livonia, Canton, and Garden City among others.

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 15, 2009 5:30 PM

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 15, 2009 4:56 PM

No Jay, because that would be a logical and responsible process. This is never a factor in their arguments; as if discussing with others in the we-all-agree-so-everyone-else-sucks forum they host over there is "discussion".

You should see them get their panties in a bundle over "global warming". They are now using the newly approved official term "climate change" since the world temperature as of late are not propping up this snake oil product Elmer Gantry Gore is peddling out of his wagon. They report current weather conditions from each of their home areas and, regardless of their particular weather history/records, it's always too hot/cold/wet/dry and always a result of "climate change".

An odd bunch.

Posted by: Harpo-Not_A_Marxist at June 15, 2009 5:33 PM

I find it ironic

We don't care what you find. Fuck off.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at June 15, 2009 6:12 PM

Jay, as an example of how these loving liberals feel about those of us who believe and God and wish to worship freely in America, I offer this posting from the DNC Open Thread from earlier today:

after watching the wild stuff going on in iran i am even more convinced that anyone who discusses their religious beliefs outside their place of worship or their own home should be made to wear cement shoes...not to be dropped in the east river to die but rather just to have each foot embedded in a small block of cement to slow them down as they try to go about haranguing and proselytizing....and of course to save the nation a lot of shoe expense during the economic crisis.... 209 gregg on June 15, 2009 at 09:38 AM

It is quite telling in that one of the primary reasons the left despises Governor Palin is her religious beliefs. Religion is a threat to liberals because it competes with their core doctrine of having to acknowledge that there is One above all, even their One.

The One they follow has little time for religion now that it has served it's purpose on the campaign trail as evidenced by his no-show at any church since taking office and the cancellation of the National Prayer Day breakfast at the White House.

He dislikes competition.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 15, 2009 6:43 PM

Jay, thats all you got? Snarky profanities?

Anon,wow! Are you high? Most people don't give a damn about your religion, and to bring that up on a blog that repeatedly whine about atheists,Muslims,Hindus,and any other non-Christians .A bit contradictory isn't it?

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 15, 2009 6:50 PM

I have my doubts. If a category 5 hurricane on your doorstep won't get you off your ass and moving, nothing will.

Posted by: Gregroy at June 15, 2009 6:50 PM

Well Ghost of Wellstone, there were a helluva lot of people in New Orleans that failed your test. Even after being warned repeatedly that there was a mandatory evacuation order and they if they stayed in the city there was a damned good chance they might die, they stayed. The looting's always at it's best when everyone else leaves town.

That same lesson was learned in Galveston last years when they were told that they WOULD die for certain if they did not leave but many stayed behind to prove them wrong. I think every so often a hunk of shark shit floats up with a familiar face and once again their theory is hatched.

There's nothing wrong with being stupid but you don't need to fashion a whole political party around the concept.

Posted by: Harpo-Not_A_Marxist at June 15, 2009 8:09 PM

America will look more like mexico a complete third world getto

Posted by: SPURWING PLOVER at June 15, 2009 9:16 PM

I find it ironic that for a group so called "Pro-America" types want parts of America to fail.
Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 15, 2009 5:30 PM

Ghost of Wellstone, I seem to have missed something. Can you direct me to the information you're using in which "Pro-America types want parts of America to fail?"

The economic crisis was caused by tax cuts and the free market? How so? Can you explain this more in depth, Ghost of Wellstone? Just a short paragraph will do.

Posted by: Kevin R at June 16, 2009 2:55 AM

"I think every so often a hunk of shark shit floats up with a familiar face and once again their theory is hatched."

yup, thats coffee all over my computer.

:-)))

Posted by: 3bus at June 16, 2009 4:19 AM

Wellstone why do you even bother? You have no aptitude for debate; all you do is spew random talking points and run. Seriously, tax cuts and the free market caused the economic crisis? Your talking points aren't even current this time. Then, you want to classify all conservatives as , yet you work yourself into a tizzy when confronted in the exact same manner. Witness your response to Anonymous at June 15, 2009 6:43 PM for clarification. It's to the point now where even if you were to miraculously be relevant or have a valid argument, it would be dismissed outright simply because you're you: a hypocritical drone without one iota of critical thinking ability.

Honestly, if I were shown to never be right, and lost any argument I engaged someone in, I'd eventually shut my damn mouth. Not you though, you persevere don't you?

Posted by: cowlove at June 16, 2009 5:58 AM

Wellstone,

I don't want our cities to fail, which is why I'm against public housing and other leftist ideas that destroy them. I'm on record here saying I think giving out condemned/abandoned properties for free is a good idea on the condition that the grantees bring them up to code within 6-12 months.

In areas that are already "urban meadows" I'd advocate loosening environmental and zoning restrictions and bringing in larger developers to do something with the property. This would obviously open the door to corruption, so strong, independent inspectors general would be needed (something Obama apparently opposes too).

Posted by: forest at June 16, 2009 6:01 AM

Correction:

Then, you want to classify all conservatives as [insert random comment you saw on some random blog], yet you work yourself into a tizzy when confronted in the exact same manner.

Posted by: cowlove at June 16, 2009 6:13 AM

You have no aptitude for debate; all you do is spew random talking points and run.

To a leftist, that is "debate." They are unaccustomed to having their talking points challenged. When a Democrat spews talking points, all Katie, Brian, or Wolf ever do is nod approvingly. They think that's how it is supposed to be.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at June 16, 2009 6:29 AM

Kevin, if someone is consistently calling people "Anti-American" and "American Haters", it would suggest that they themselves would in fact be be "Pro-American".
First, the "Free Market" is not free,and failing to recognize that it has consequences directly led to the deregulation that got us here. Tax cuts sound great,but it did not lead to corporations and the rich providing jobs, it led to the Milton Friendman mentality that greed is good. Hence, shipping jobs overseas. Kevin, hope that was short enough. Not a simple topic as I am sure you can agree.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2009 8:17 AM

Cowlove,and Gregory, I happy to debate, and to say i "RUN" is a laugh. I drop in here everyday. The tax cuts and deregulation have not worked. Much like I am having my doubts on the Bush and Obama bailouts. Bush and Congress did it with no oversight of the companies and Obama is doing it with far too many loopholes which is leading to CEOs' showing their greed and corruption.

That said,under both Republican and Democratic control we have seen tax cuts for shipping work overseas, and a reduction in tax revenue go from 91% to about 30%, and we wonder why we're here? When some of you get into some of the childish nonsense of shooting liberals and using some pretty vulgar language directed at me, that is when I leave the thread.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 16, 2009 8:32 AM

Sorry the above two are me

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 16, 2009 8:34 AM

And yet every state and every country that cuts taxes sees economic growth. Hmmm, wonder why that is? Also, I wonder if the jobs being shipped overseas have anything to do with the USA having the highest corporate taxes in the industrialized world. Even *Sweden's* corporate taxes are lower than the USA's.

But I'm sure that has nothing to do with the US's lack of global competitiveness. Maybe we should keep jacking up tax rates... like they do in the thriving states of Michigan, New Jersey, and Gullyfornyuh.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at June 16, 2009 8:38 AM

Forrest,well said.It's a catch 22 though isn't it? If we fail to help the poor with housing and allow them to be homeless, then the chances of them ever finding a job and making things better for themselves is very slim. I can as a mile outside of Detroit, we have a strange area. There are a lot of foreclosed homes in our areas, and at a meeting Republicans and Democrats debated the idea of the Township purchasing many of them for rentals. So, the conclusion was, is that we are seeing our own homes value decline, we are seeing little in tax revenue, and many have become eyesores. The Township is moving forward on the purchase. The same can be said of vacant businesses, where some developers are looking at vacant land, but want it tax free for the first year. I argued on behalf of the developer, because they are not getting taxes now.

As far as the Inspector General is concerned, it is fair to say that he was a Bush guy, and Obama will likely be replaced with his own.

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 16, 2009 8:50 AM

When some of you get into some of the childish nonsense of shooting liberals and using some pretty vulgar language directed at me, that is when I leave the thread.

Then you should grow a pair and stand behind your arguments.

But no, your arguments are destroyed, so you resort to idiotic insults like your current favorite, the "flying monkey right." But heaven forbid someone be a meanie to you.

Grow up.

Posted by: cowlove at June 16, 2009 8:52 AM

Actually,Japan is slightly higher than us.Gregory, I see your point. Yet, we are witnessing a time similar to the Depression era where FDR raised corporate taxes on income above $3 to $4 million a year (in today’s dollars) to 91 percent, and corporate taxes to over 50% of profits. That being said,in the stimulus jobs are being created, not at a pace I would prefer, but nonetheless. Every Billion dollars invested in infrastructure results in 40,000 American jobs. That is based on statistics.

We are seeing corporate profits go through the roof Gregory, and a steady pace of job loss..still. So, if they are reaping all of these profits because of tax cuts, I say it is a lie. It is a mentality of "we can ship jobs (insert country), we can make more." So, by taxing these corporations it is the only way we as a country can stay afloat. We are caught, I agree. But if we sit back and do nothing it would get worse. We would witness more joblessness, more jobs sent overseas,and a deeper depression.And my point early was, that as Americans I would hope that we all wanted to get out of this.

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 16, 2009 9:04 AM

Cowlove, "flying monkey right" is pretty fair seeing as how my ilk called "Moonbats". My skin is pretty thick, and I can get into a tit for tat with most. When it comes to eradicating cities and people you deem too liberal, that's when I go. As demonstrated by Forrest,Judith and Gregory, and at a time Jay, the sharing of ideas can come with civility and and a few little snarky comments w/o becoming some harsh rhetoric...no matter how much you disagree.

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 16, 2009 9:09 AM

I find it ironic that for a group so called "Pro-America" types want parts of America to fail.
Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 15, 2009 5:30 PM

Ghost of Wellstone, I seem to have missed something. Can you direct me to the information you're using in which "Pro-America types want parts of America to fail?"
Posted by: Me at June 16, 2009 2:55 AM

Kevin, if someone is consistently calling people "Anti-American" and "American Haters", it would suggest that they themselves would in fact be be "Pro-American".
Posted by: [Ghost of Wellstone] at June 16, 2009 8:17 AM

Oh, now that's a cogent answer. So that's how they want parts of America to fail. Wow, that paranoid flying monkey right is just attacking and smearing all over the place.

Kevin, hope that was short enough. Not a simple topic as I am sure you can agree.
Posted by: [Ghost of Wellstone] at June 16, 2009 8:17 AM

No it isn't. I've read The Housing Boom and Bust by Thomas Sowell and Meldown by Thomas E. Woods Jr., two books whose views I'm certain you would disagree with as they point out how it was that government intervention in the market caused the crisis. Another good book I've read on the subject of government intervention in the market New Deal or Raw Deal by Burton Folsom, Jr., whose analysis of the FDR administration and the New Deal hammers home to me how a President of the United States, by making himself a monkey wrench in the works of the free market, can frighten business to the point of where business refuses to do anything that might risk their capital because they don't know what new rules are going to be imposed on them tomorrow.

Tax cuts sound great,but it did not lead to corporations and the rich providing jobs, it led to the Milton Friendman mentality that greed is good.
Posted by: [Ghost of Wellstone] at June 16, 2009 8:17 AM

I don't care so much about "providing jobs" as I care about new wealth being created. People like Thomas Edison don't build whole industries, as he did the infant electric industry, in order to provide jobs. They create vast new wealth and then, as a consequence it enriches peoples lives in countless ways.

I find that the typical Left-wing smear which you use, "...Milton Friendman mentality that "greed is good," is a symptom of a deep rooted cynicism in your fellow human-beings.

Posted by: Kevin R at June 16, 2009 9:59 AM

You willingly visit a site called Moonbattery, take offense to being lumped in with moonbats, answer back with "flying monkey right," take offense to snarky and uncivil comments, answer back with snarky and uncivil comments, and all this while purporting to be looking for reasonable discussion and debate on key issues.

*Cough*bullshit*cough*

You've been shown to be a racist, sexist, liberal drone. I, for one, certainly appreciate the refresher from time to time, but let's not pretend you're anything more.

Posted by: cowlove at June 16, 2009 10:01 AM

Cowlove, "flying monkey right" is pretty fair seeing as how my ilk called "Moonbats".
Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 16, 2009 9:09 AM

Moonbat is a reference applied to all modern-day loons, typically modern-day Liberals, who we find on both sides of the political aisle. "Moonbat" isn't politically partisan.

"flying monkey right" on the other hand is a reference to the attack monkeys in the Wizard of Oz whose sole purpose is to serve the Wicked Witch. "flying monkey right" implies a Wicked Witch who sends her attack monkeys out to attack the poor innocent wandering, er... Lefties? Who's the Wicked Witch sending us out to attack you, Ghost of Wellstone? Or does the analogy break down upon inspection?

The phrase "flying monkey right" seems to have been born from a politically partisan Conspiracy Theory mentality.

Posted by: Kevin R at June 16, 2009 10:17 AM

Kevin, fair enough. And Cowlove, we're done, you have demonstrated an inability to have an adult conversation.

Kevin, actually, the "flying monkey right"is a reference to the Wizard of Oz,and has nothing to do with the witch, it pertains to the flock and is common on our side. Regardless, how many times have I, or any of the handful of liberals here been called "America Hater" or heard "you hate America"? That would suggest that you are somehow more "Pro-America". It's tit for tat stuff.

"I don't care so much about "providing jobs" as I care about new wealth being created." Ok, how is wealth created if nothing is being produced? Unfortunately we cannot be a country of CEOs'. I just wrote on this for a local paper, that we have become consumers and not producers. If we continue to consume w/o any production, that well eventually dries up like it is currently doing. As far as the books, no I have not read them, but I try to keep up on Sowell's column in the Detroit News. It is full of alot of what I am accused of..."talking points". "Free Market, Free Market, Free Market", no matter how much you repeat it doesn't make it free. Governments provide markets by providing a currency. Letting Corporations run amuck without any Government restrictions leads down the paths of let's say Enron. People and employees are inevitably screwed by the "Free Market" and the cost is high as we can now see in our lifetimes. It goes without saying that I am pro-labor, but I would be lying through my teeth if I felt they were fine the way they are. By them making bold concessions after the current contracts expire, with the incentive of a tax break for honoring the contract...production continues. Workers keep their jobs, corporations produce and therefore "wealth is created" and we would not witness bailouts in dollar amounts we have.

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 16, 2009 10:55 AM

lol. this actually could backfire on him.

Posted by: Joe Nen at June 16, 2009 11:10 AM

And Cowlove, we're done, you have demonstrated an inabilityunwillingness to have an adult conversation with a racist, sexist, childlike buffoon.

Fixed for you, no thanks necessary!

Posted by: cowlove at June 16, 2009 12:22 PM

Governments provide markets by providing a currency.
Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 16, 2009 10:55 AM

I see, the government provides a currency and that creates the conditions necessary for a market economy.

This may not seem germane to you but, back in the 19th century, which witnessed an industrial American boom known as the Industrial age, government provided freedom and prosperity by guaranteeing that property rights and contracts were protected by law. The government had very little to do with currency and it was a good thing, back then a person could save their money and because the government wasn't inflating the currency a person's gold coin would actually gain in value over time rather than lose value, because the price of goods due to better and better methods of production kept on going down.

Posted by: Kevin R at June 16, 2009 12:54 PM

Letting Corporations run amuck without any Government restrictions leads down the paths of let's say Enron.
Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 16, 2009 10:55 AM

And because there are murderers and other criminals in society perhaps we should regulate the populace.

There are already laws against fraud on the books, the criminal justice system takes care of things like that. But, if you insist on using authoritarian tools to make the market and society more to your liking, our current Presidential administration will give you plenty of satisfaction, I am sure.

Posted by: Kevin R at June 16, 2009 1:10 PM

Kevin, ok, I will give you that. Yet, following that era, America was creditor, not a debtor Nation. Further, we are not operating on gold anymore. I think we both have valid arguments here. Yours that Government intervention has stymied the efforts of corporations vs mine that w/o any restrictions American corporations would rather be opening shop in China to prevent oversight and pay lower taxes, not to mention China's less than stellar record on human and environmental standards and pay. Therefore, we are not producing. We are stuck on different ideologies within our corporations and our Government, as well as citizens (workers). Where to from here?

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 16, 2009 1:16 PM

Yours that Government intervention has stymied the efforts of corporations...
Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 16, 2009 1:16 PM

I'm not a defender of corporations per se, I believe in the American ideal of Liberty and I want to defend that from what I see as an onslaught of what I consider to be tyrannical ideas stemming from the Left. When people are free from government interference and can trade with each other in freedom guaranteed by limited government then capitalism results - the accumulation of capital and wealth. And civilization thrives. And Ghost of Wellstone, I want to continue living in civilization. Very, very selfishly I want to continue living in civilization. I don't want to see our country crumble into the decay that places like Cuba have degenerated to.

Posted by: Kevin R at June 16, 2009 2:41 PM

Thank you for bringing up the monetary issue, Kevin R. The Federal Reserve caused the first Great Depression, and it had a role to play in the mortgage bubble, when it lowered interest rates in the 1990's. It is high time to break up that money printing monopoly and reconsider things like the fractional reserve system, which seems to serve mainly to create unsustainable bubbles and deepen the pain and suffering when those bubbles burst.

Posted by: Judith M. at June 16, 2009 2:53 PM

Kevin, I am all with you on continuing living in a civilization. However, if we fail to address the current crisis and pine away for days gone by we will inevitably repeat these problems. Sorry, I may have overreached that you were pro-corporation. We have issues from the Fed, as Judith notes, to many politicians from both aisles, and corporate corruption. Personally, I would say the best two people oversee this much of this nonsense would Reps. Paul and Kucinich, as I actually find them the most honest politicians we have. Kevin, I have to note, and it is from experience "tyrannical ideas" is ineffective.Clearly the economic downturn does not care what party you align with, but addressing the issue from sides is crucial. For the record, thanks I made a trip up the road to the library and checked out Sowell's book as well as Thom Hartmann's "Screwed". Thanks for the homework! Just what I need when the flower beds are screaming at me...lol. Take care.

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 16, 2009 5:05 PM

GoW- "If we fail to help the poor..."

The proles might succumb to bourgeois Charities. Quelle horreur, comrade! Probably RELIGIOUS charity! Such reactionary influence could cripple the class struggle. Further collectivization is the only option.

GoW- "If we... allow them to be homeless..."

No. We shall NOT allow any such thing, comrade. But when we do, it will be at the pleasure of the Politburo. Not just whenever the reactionary peasants feel like it.

GoW- "...then the chances of them ever finding a job and making things better for themselves is very slim."

They don't need "themselves" to do anything, comrade. The Party, and our Dear Leader shall provide all.

Posted by: chairman soetoro's oprichniki at June 16, 2009 5:08 PM

Cross-check GOW IP address.

Plant.

Posted by: Oiao at June 17, 2009 1:05 AM

Kevin, I have to note, and it is from experience "tyrannical ideas" is ineffective.Clearly the economic downturn does not care what party you align with, but addressing the issue from sides is crucial.
Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 16, 2009 5:05 PM

The only "side" is on the side of freedom and liberty and thus prosperity - or on the side of more government intervention and tyranny and thus more decay and ruin.

However, if we fail to address the current crisis and pine away for days gone by...

Pining away for days gone by? You're going to get plenty of that if the Obama administration continues with it's present course of authoritarianism. I'm not pining away for days gone by. If standing up for what is right, which is all an honest person can do, means standing up for the principles which are the foundation of civilized society - that is not "pining away for days gone by;" it is understanding timeless principles which are based on the human condition and the nature of Man. The nature of Man and the human condition do not change. Days gone by? What's that, an allusion to the Marxist Dialectical Materialism meme that different times in history have their own conditions? The conditions don't change.

Posted by: Kevin R at June 17, 2009 1:52 PM

Kevin, we were doing so good until the "Marxist" stuff. "Pining for days gone by" is a figure of speech. No matter how things pan out, Capitalism is not going to be the same no matter who is in power. If we allow cities and major manufacturing companies fail we will never regain our status as "producers". What we are witnessing is a two party system that is so divided, that working together is almost a figment of Jefferson's imagination. For the record, I think you and offered a good example of bipartisanship, far better than our elected officials.

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at June 17, 2009 2:03 PM

Wellstone, you are not aware, I see, that you come across as a pretentious ignoramus. Your pretence is that you are even-handed, accepting points from the other side, occasionally and gently pointing out errors.
It's often embarassing to read your contributions, naive and pompous, but do keep it up. To many viewers you are a specimen, to be wondered at, but useful in that you represent a part of our community and so give an insight into what passes as thought from that part.

Posted by: Jim at June 17, 2009 2:39 PM

Kevin, we were doing so good until the "Marxist" stuff. Too bad. There are a lot of people on the Left who've absorbed Marxist ideas without knowing the source or context of those ideas.

...Capitalism is not going to be the same no matter who is in power.

Since Capitalism, trade and the creation and accumulation of wealth, is simply what happens when people are free, what you are actually saying is that society isn't going to be the same no matter who is in power. You can screw up the freedom of civil society with an authoritarian style of government, as the Obama administration will do if allowed, but no matter what, there is such a thing as free civil society ergo, Capitalism doesn't change it either exists because people are free or it is destroyed because free civil society is destroyed and the economy becomes a command and control economy based on politics and political power.

Posted by: Kevin R at June 17, 2009 3:10 PM