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May 29, 2009

Open Thread

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Compliments of Diversity Lane.

Posted by Van Helsing at May 29, 2009 9:21 AM

Comments

I love these cartoons. Too funny.

Posted by: Anonymous at May 29, 2009 10:02 AM

“Many Missouri dealers are asking us why certain profitable dealers, costing the auto companies nothing, were selected for closure,” McCaskill, a Democrat, and Bond, a Republican, wrote to White House car czar Steve Rattner. “From this perspective it appears an arbitrary standard may have been used to make these decisions … these dealers deserve a little more than just a pink slip in the mail.”

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2009/05/18/daily62.html

Looks like the dealership closings are

Posted by: Scaramouche at May 29, 2009 10:35 AM

I have a feeling his concept of 'maleness' is a lot different than mine.

Posted by: IOpian at May 29, 2009 12:11 PM

Remember how the lefty trolls were going nuts last week over a Mancow stunt that "proved" waterboarding was torture. Guess what? It was a hoax.

Posted by: V the K at May 29, 2009 12:11 PM

The "Sea Shepards" are continuing their attacks on whaleing ships, keeping FOOD and other materials from sea-fareing nations like Japan who depend on havating the sea for sustinance. What will the Liberal "heros" object to next? Tuna fishing? Salmon fishing? Trout fishing? How would they like it if they got rammed by a jeep in the parking lot of a supermarket and were prevented from buying food for their familys by people calliong them "murderers"?

These "whale-huggers" are nothing but pirates (Look up the legal definition) and I pray that merchant ships will be armed soon.

Posted by: KHarn at May 29, 2009 1:50 PM

Not only was his 'waterboarding' a totally lame publicity stunt that sucked in gullible lefties like Sully, Olberdouche, and the lame-o's who troll here --- but also, Mancow is a big fat whining sissy boy.

Massive FAIL!

Posted by: V the K at May 29, 2009 4:40 PM

V the K,
I just saw Mueller on TV, and he claimed he spoke with publicist about the word "hoax", and they said it was a poor choice of words. Further, his radio show is based on stunts and pranks, which in his words "is the irony here because it is torture". Funny how guys like yourself and the flying monkey right continue to defend this practice after Gen. Patreaus, interrogator Matthew Alexander, and the soldiers who have been trained in the practice all admit it does get reliable information. Talk about being a political hack, way to tow the party line friend...

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at May 29, 2009 6:06 PM

*does not get reliable information

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at May 29, 2009 6:06 PM

Everybody, check out Zombietime's site.
There's a new photo report there, documenting the recent protest over the upholding of Prop 8, pretty good stuff (I mean, good reporting, the protestors were being their typical repulsive selves).

Posted by: Adam at May 29, 2009 6:35 PM

Just won't give up ghost wellstoned on the tourture issue. Water boarding is coercion not torture. Throwing someone off a 5 story building or cutting their head of with a knife is tourture.
your argument is getting stale. you are acting like a little twerpy kid running around trying to make a childish point.

Posted by: Dave at May 29, 2009 7:05 PM

Teachers Gone Wild–Again!

(As preface, please see my five-part series, “Teachers Gone Wild I-V” [August 20-24, 2008]. Part I can be found here: http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=370)

Well, they’re at it again, as if they ever stopped.

WCBS-TV reported that yet another dedicated professional, a female teacher in a New York City intermediate school, Marissa Weber, was caught in flagrante delicto with a 14 year old (male) student. It’s alleged that 27 year old Ms. Weber trysted the afternoons away with the kid on some seven occasions between April and mid-May.

Had she not been apprehended in one of her acts, Marissa probably would have had a blissful summer with a kid half her age which, in itself, says a great deal about Marissa.

It’s not quite the rule but no longer even approximately the exception that, as can be seen from that 5-part series, school teachers are increasingly abusing their positions of authority and former respect by sexually abusing children. The practice can’t be said to be rampant but likewise it can no longer be considered rare.

Ms. Weber, it seems, was very aware of the consequences if not the iniquity of her assignations with a minor, cautioning him, “Don’t tell anyone. I could get arrested and I could lose my teaching license.” She apparently had no concern with losing her self-respect nor with taking carnal advantage of the boy.

Her final contact with him, after his mother discovered hundreds of messages from her on his cell phone, was a tad cryptic: “Erase your phone:” http://wcbstv.com/local/teacher.arrested.melissa.2.1023153.html.

Here’s a clue for Ms. Weber: You have a helluva lot more to lose than simply your license to teach. Try a few years in the slammer.

Few say it nowadays, but in our sexually-charged culture, underage male victims probably didn’t perceive himself as victimized. Obviously, police didn’t divulge the name of the boy nor specifics as to precisely what went on in Ms. Weber’s second floor classroom at IS/MS 8 in Queens, N.Y. aside from saying she had “sex with the teen seven times from mid-April to mid-May, all after school.”

The teen is no doubt feeling like the King of the May and is being lionized by his buddies. However, a quick look at the video of Ms. Weber being ignominiously hauled out of her school would suggest she had to have gotten the better end of the sick deal. Marissa looks like she’ll have a tough time finding a girlfriend at the Riker’s Island jail.

Across the Hudson, in Frankford, New Jersey, she may have had a comrade in the arms of another middle schooler. Lindsay Massaro, 23, is alleged to have had a week-long “relationship” with one of her students.

Massaro, a student teacher and a student at Centenary College in Hackettstown, N.J., “is traumatized by the charges and maintains her innocence,” according to her attorney: http://wcbstv.com/local/teacher.student.sex.2.974401.html.

No mention is made of any victim trauma and maintaining her innocence is more than Weber maintained so we should withhold judgement in this case. It could be a matter of a kid annoyed with his grades. It could also be retaliation for being rebuffed by Ms. Massaro. Kids. . .
(Read the rest at http://genelalor.com)

Posted by: Berlet98 at May 30, 2009 12:36 AM

Um, Michael Alexander is also a phony, who publishes under a pseudonym. And, like others, he has discovered that buying into the media's "waterboarding is torture" meme gets you lots of fame, celebrity, and glad-handing.

And, of course, whining sissy-boy Mancow isn't going to back down, even though the evidence shows he coordinated the stunt with Jerry Springer, and the guy who performed the "waterboarding" didn't even know what he was doing; he just looked up waterboarding on wikipedia and then poured water on whining sissy-boy's head from a pitcher.

And, no, Caspar won't give up on the "torture" thing. Because he would rather hundreds or thousands of innocent people get killed or maimed than pour water on a terrorist's nose for thirty seconds. Those are leftist values.

Posted by: V the K at May 30, 2009 5:52 AM

Oh, and, BTW, Whining Sissyboy Mancow has also said that the left is distorting his message, and he still supports using waterboarding on terrorists to save lives. Wellstone doesn't think making a terrorist uncomfortable is worth saving lives.

That's why I will always despise the left; real human lives mean less to them than their selfish little need to feel superior.

Posted by: V the K at May 30, 2009 5:57 AM

Oh, yeah, that and the constant lying. The left would rather coddle terrorists than save lives and they constantly lie, that's why I despise the left.

Posted by: V the K at May 30, 2009 5:59 AM

Actually, it's even worse. Democrats don't really give a rat's butt about 'torture', beyond the word's emotional value and its use as a rhetorical weapon against the previous administration.

So, basically, the real point of opposing "torture" is to let innocent people die and be horribly maimed all for the sake of taking cheap political shots against the other party.

Like I said, the left thoroughly... thoroughly... disgusts me.

Posted by: V the K at May 30, 2009 7:18 AM

VtheK, Mancow is a "Sissyboy" because you don't like what he has has to say? He has defended his position that waterboarding is torture. Getting your info from Gawker and Michelle Malkin does not make it so. The publicist also said that using the word "hoax" was a bad choice of words. As for Matthew Alexander, his 14 years in the Air Force is a joke to you? 1,000 interrogations, including 300 in Iraq is phony? Alot of writers write under pseudonyms, like Michelle Malkin. Mancow is also criticizing the right for the demand that it was a joke because it was not done to the CIA criteria.

Your hypothetical talk of a doomsday scenario is pathetic, as is your suggesting that the "left" wants hundreds and thousands to die to "feel superior". We wept just you on 9/11, and we do not feel killing innocents is ok. We also have been fighting against the wars because of the massive amounts of death that result in it. And we are certainly not going to sell out our American values to information that may or not be true. It has been repeated by dozens of interrogators and Military personnel that it is not reliable. Possessing some sadistic mentality that torturing someone who may or may not be guilty of terrorism is not reliable and an insult to our values.

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at May 30, 2009 7:19 AM

No, Mancow is a sissyboy because he cried like a little bitch after having water poured on his face.

And you can deny and spin all you want, but it all comes down to you are willing to let any number of innocent people be butchered as long as you can preen about your political correctness in keeping the terrorist scum of the Earth from having to experience any sort of discomfort.

Posted by: V the K at May 30, 2009 7:38 AM

And don't give me this bullcrap about how the left cares so much about innocent lives. While Pol Pot was slaughtering millions in the killing fields, the left was snorting coke and high-fiving itself over getting the U.S. out of southeast Asia and enabling it to happen. You whine about 400 Al Qaeda being held at Gitmo, but you revere Castro who deprived thousands of political prisoners of their lives and freedom, and who still holds 11,000,000 Cubans in a virtual gulag.

Don't give me this bullcrap about how the left cares so much about innocent lives and human rights. It's pure 100% rhetorical horseshit.

Posted by: V the K at May 30, 2009 7:47 AM

Oh, you know me so well,don't you? VtheK, the idea that you think you know the left so well is such a joke. The left doing coke while many Americans wanted out of Southeast Asia was certainly nothing I had any control over, nor do I have any control over Castro's actions. However,I do think it is important for the American people to actually learn something from the past, and choose not to repeat the same mistakes. Castro is near death,and we have begun to change the relationship we have with Cuba and begin to right the wrongs that have been done.Should we continue to punish those Cuban Americans who still have family there? Should we deny Americans the right to travel there? Cuba continues on it's course in part to some of the United States actions.

As far as Mancow, you are taking issue because you don't like that he reversed his opinion. He was man enough to actually have it done, or damn close to, to realize it is wrong. Your vitriolic rhetoric is nothing more than a right-wing diatribe of "let's see who can kill more!" You are incapable of a civilized debate by using the language you do. 4300+ American soldiers have been killed, and at least a million Iraqis, and to you "Well,thats war!". For myself, that is too much. When we were lied into Iraq,this is the result? Furthermore, it is now being revealed that torture was used to get some false link that Saddam had ties to Al Qaeda and we know that he didn't. Then we said, well he tortured people in those torture chambers...so now we are torturing? C'mon man, your argument is in market decline so to speak.

I am not the least bit worried if a guilty terrorist is uncomfortable, I am concerned about the ones who have been innocent. And of these 400 detainees, how many have been found guilty of any crime? You can go on with your hypotheticals. You keep telling yourself these things. You fail to realize that our soldiers are not machines, and what people like yourself and those that send them to do has repurcussions. You misunderstand that! When you are ready to have an adult discussion/debate you let me know. Oh, and funny, you did not say a peep about Petraeus, who said we should not torture, Gitmo needs to be closed, and that we have violated the Geneva Conventions...He must be one of them far-left loons,huh?

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at May 30, 2009 8:29 AM

Mancow is a publicity whore; and his publicity stunt was only taken to advance his own career; it has nothing whatsoever to do with principle. Only an idiot fascist dupe like you ascribes any higher motive to it.

The left doesn't give a damn about innocent people and it never has. It's all about playing on people's emotions to advance a statist agenda. That's all it's ever been.

Posted by: V the K at May 30, 2009 8:42 AM

Rinse,Wash,Repeat...that is your argument?

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at May 30, 2009 9:11 AM

Posted by: WickedDoublePlusGood Mega at May 30, 2009 9:14 AM

It's not an argument, it's a fact; supported by 100 years of progressives slaughtering innocent people, jailing dissidents, oppressing human rights and cheering for those who do so in the name of socialism.

Posted by: V the K at May 30, 2009 9:52 AM

And Obama continues in the Fascist tradition by putting a gag order on critics of the economic stimulus.

Posted by: V the K at May 30, 2009 9:54 AM

And what about the 70 years of Conservatives slaughtering innocents? You cannot have it both ways, you have to be realistic enough to recognize that America, and many other countries are not perfect. Question, what have we learned from it? VtheK, I am going to take the high road here, because I have allowed myself to get into petty ass debates, but I am willing to have this one..if it is civilized. We can discuss the morals of what is happening now, and ideologies that have led us here. I am more than willing to concede a combination of the Conservative and Liberal ideologies have contributed, but at what point do we as "political hacks" set it aside and say Enough!?

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at May 30, 2009 10:26 AM

The far, far, far looney Left on Obama:

Ted Rall Calls for Obama's Resignation

http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2009/05/off-his-meds-ted-rall-calls-for-obama.html

No matter how far Left you go there's always going to someone to the Left of you.

Posted by: Kevin R at May 30, 2009 10:40 AM

And what about the 70 years of Conservatives slaughtering innocents?
Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at May 30, 2009 10:26 AM

Explain this statement. Educate me on "the 70 years of Conservative slaughtering innocents." I want to know.

Posted by: Kevin R at May 30, 2009 10:43 AM

And what about the 70 years of Conservatives slaughtering innocents?

What are you talking about? Nothing of the kind ever happened. All of the slaughter has been perpetrated by collectivists. All of it.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 30, 2009 11:04 AM

Cambodia: communists. STATE power used to murder millions.
Russia: communists. STATE power used to murder millions
China: communists. STATE power used to murder millions.
Nazis: national SOCIALISTS, and pagans to boot. STATE power used to murder tens of millions.
Italians: a more complex case, but basically STATE power + militarism + corporate alliances

Conservativism = against state power, period.

None of the above criminal regimes had a damn thing to do with conservative principles, or conservatism.

Where are the "conservative atrocities"? That is ridiculous. That is no more than "I am a progressive, which is ipso facto good, so anyone who disagrees with me must be bad."

You progressives are in for a serious learning experience. By the time Obama gets done with his cyber czars and tech czars and health care czars and urban renewal czars and czars for this and czars for that, by the time he loots the final dollar bill from the US treasury and takes out the final Chinese loan before they pull the plug, to erect this new federal program or pay off that campaign supporter, you are going to wake up one morning and realize that you are now a subject in a state ruled by czars, and bankrupt, with no more "rich and powerful" to loot, and you are not going to like it. Not one bit.

Posted by: mega at May 30, 2009 11:21 AM

And what about the 70 years of Conservatives slaughtering innocents?
Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at May 30, 2009 10:26 AM

I want to hear what you have to say on the subject, Ghost of Wellstone. Educate me. Let us know all about it.

You know what a Conservative is, right?

Posted by: Kevin R at May 30, 2009 12:01 PM

For the record, after Chris Hitchens was waterboarded... correctly, by the way... he said, "Let's do it some more." And he lasted a lot more than three seconds like crybaby sissyboy Mancow did.

Hitchens maybe an socialist atheist douchebag, but at least he's not a whining little bitch like Manclown.

Posted by: V the K at May 30, 2009 12:53 PM

I'm curious too. I'd like to hear Ghost's list of 70 years of conservative slaughter.

Posted by: Evil Otto at May 30, 2009 1:15 PM

As for conservatives supporting the slaughter of innocents, I didn't see any Che shirts, or Che stickers, or Che flags or Che anything at the tea parties.

Posted by: V the K at May 30, 2009 2:08 PM

Or Che flags in our campaign offices.

Posted by: Evil Otto at May 30, 2009 4:14 PM

70 years of conservatives killing innocents? Lil' Casper Wellstoned would you please tell me where in the fuck did you come up with that! I sure would like you to educate me on this subject. Even if it's some of your stupid liberal dumb shit I sure am interested on how you derived that. Did you and Wingnutjackass conspire to come up with this? My God man I think you are a certified liberal nut case.

Please be careful with your hammer and sickle I wouldn't want you maim yourself.

DUMBASS!

Posted by: Dave at May 30, 2009 6:41 PM

GHOST OF WELLSTONE grinds up kittens to smoke in his bong!

Of course I have evidence of that, just as Liberals have "evidence" that "W" Bush is a "war criminal".

Posted by: KHarn at May 30, 2009 6:50 PM

Hey!! I have two cats. They would claw the ever living shit out of Lil' Casper Wellstoned. Hope that never happens I don't want my beloved pets to catch any of those liberal diseases.

Sam and Dusty aren't very fond of liberals neither is my 95 pound pit/chow mix, Chopper. He won't even let them in the yard. Well trained I might add.

Posted by: Dave at May 30, 2009 6:57 PM

Ghost of Wellstone- "We wept just (like) you on 9/11, and we do not feel killing innocents is ok."

Sulking about the lib agenda receiving a setback is not the same as genuine grief. Also, the lib concept of "innocent" differs from the human norm- People who die through the actions of socialists and muslims, are not "innocent". They are "little Eichmanns", who had it coming.

Posted by: chairman soetoro's oprichniki at May 30, 2009 8:14 PM

We wept just (like) you on 9/11

Grand Wizard, we did not weep. Weeping is for women, and liberals and other bathhouse habitues. Men want vengeance.

And thanks to St. George, we got it, by killing a lot of people who wanted killing. Not that there aren't a lot more who need the same.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 30, 2009 9:42 PM

Hey Casper, where's that list at, huh?

And in reading your posts (which damn near put me to sleep), you have yet to defend what V the K said in which he said you'd rather another terrorist attack happen then a terrorist be made to feel uncomfortable for a minute.

WHy are you libs against coercive interrogation? Walling, making them listen to Barney, "caterpillaring" and yes, waterboarding... why do you feel that our troops cannot do this to get info out of the enemy if it means saving American lives?

Posted by: Atomic Lib Smasher at May 31, 2009 4:23 AM

Seriously, Ghost. Still waiting.

Posted by: Evil Otto at May 31, 2009 7:04 AM

Casper the Wellstoned ghost!! you are a fraud and one stupid liberal agitator. You can't produce anything to back up you claim. Why don't you stay where you belong which is on you BULLSHIT lying ass lefty blog sight, which sucks by the way. You call yourself a progressive but all I can see is regression. People like yourself don't deserve to live in this great nation. Why don't you go fight with the Taliban or Al Qaeda. If we're lucky you will have a quick and painless death from an AMERICAN bullet. Take your whiny sissy friend with you to Wingnutlicker, he's just as big a wussy as you are.

It's hammer and sickle time for the both of you...Now get to it pinkos!!!!!

Posted by: Dave at May 31, 2009 7:31 AM

Awww, were guys waiting for me ?Sorry, I had a hockey game and a date. May I suggest many of you look over your comments while awaiting my response? You are children..."GHOST OF WELLSTONE grinds up kittens to smoke in his bong!","Grand Wizard, we did not weep. Weeping is for women, and liberals and other bathhouse habitues. Men want vengeance." Real men want justice. If for one second, you lived up to the American values you claim to represent you would understand that.

As for 70 years of Conservative slaughter. Let's start with Nazi Germany. When you consider the deaths that resulted in the name of "master race", the idea that the "other" members of society should focus on being productive in order to uphold the pillars of the society. All others be damned right? Putting forth that mentality has carried over into today's conservatism.Nazism rejected Liberal ideologies over and over. Much like today's conservatives do. This behavior has resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocent people. And Mega, you are sorely mistaken in comparing Progressives to the Communists. While todays modern Progressives look at countries who have socialized a number of things, we do look at the result.In states with forms of Democratic Socialism, we see a lower crime rate, a lower poverty rate, and a higher life expectancy rate. For all of you, and many know history well, re-read the Road to Serfdom, and equate with the criticisms you give me. Not the ones about Che, or how someone's cats would scratch my eyes out, the ones that are up for debate. Most of you have shown yourselves to be content with dragging your knuckles on the ground and spouting off childish playground taunts. While I do not doubt you guys love our country, we do however disagree on how achieve the best possible America. I am not ready to wave my "USA #1!" sign until we start behaving like it and are actually number one.

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at May 31, 2009 9:21 AM

That's it huh? Very weak Casper. Try it again. You are not a patriot you are a bumbling liberal idiot. Have you no pride man in this country?

If you ask me you act like a child trying to explain his way out of a bullshit lie. You are still a fraud.

Did you have a date with a female or a male and were that at least 18 years of age?

Posted by: Dave at May 31, 2009 9:31 AM

Seriously, Ghost. Still waiting.
Posted by: Evil Otto at May 31, 2009 7:04 AM

Something most people become painfully aware of well before Ghost of Wellstone's age is that it's very important to know what you know and it's equally important to know what you don't know.

Posted by: Kevin R at May 31, 2009 9:37 AM

The National Socialists were not Conservatives. This is what you have? It's the old Left Wing canard equating us with fascism. Ghost of Wellstone, we don't believe in any "master race or anything like "all others be damned." You're going to have to do a lot better than that. You're calling us fascists. Oh, brother.

Posted by: Kevin R at May 31, 2009 9:47 AM

I beleive that Casper the Wellstoned Ghost has no clue as to what he is talking about. Sounds like he making up his own liberal theories. Like I said he is just a fraud. I think he takes after his mentor Mr. Obama. Make up shit and just take it from there. Casper this is no way to go through life son.

Posted by: Dave at May 31, 2009 9:57 AM

Nazis were ELITISTS, as are MODERN LIBERALS. Liberals believe in in a massive national government answerable only to itself, as did nazis. Liberals believe that all production should be controled by this government, as did nazis. Liberals believe in "one world government" as did the nazis. Liberals are obsessed with race, are were nazis. Liberals are opponants of Christian organizations, as were the nazis. Liberals don't like competition from religious or political groups, neither did the nazis.

The same goes with Liberals and communists. In fact, the communists faound a home with Liberals and recruted them for "the world revolution" without the Liberals knowing what was happening!

Posted by: KHarn at May 31, 2009 10:03 AM

Ghost, don't take this the wrong way, but that was... really incoherent.

Awww, were guys waiting for me ?

Well, when you make a bizarre statement like that, we naively expect you to back it up.

Sorry, I had a hockey game and a date. May I suggest many of you look over your comments while awaiting my response? You are children..."GHOST OF WELLSTONE grinds up kittens to smoke in his bong!","Grand Wizard, we did not weep. Weeping is for women, and liberals and other bathhouse habitues. Men want vengeance." Real men want justice. If for one second, you lived up to the American values you claim to represent you would understand that.

Been over this. You are arguing politics. On the internet. If you expect sunshine and rainbows, you are going to be disappointed. The internet is a mosh pit, not a ballroom.

As for 70 years of Conservative slaughter. Let's start with Nazi Germany.

(I *knew* you were going to immediately use the Nazi comparison. Ah, well... another day, another liberal who thinks conservatives are Nazis.)

Really? I know it's standard liberal boilerplate that the Nazis were conservative, but were they? Did they believe in limited government? Lower taxes? A free market?

"We are Socialists, enemies, mortal enemies of the present capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, with its injustice in wages, with its immoral evaluation of individuals according to wealth and money instead of responsibility and achievement, and we are determined under all circumstances to abolish this system." -Gregor Strasser

When you consider the deaths that resulted in the name of "master race", the idea that the "other" members of society should focus on being productive in order to uphold the pillars of the society.

What? That sentence doesn't make sense. Perhaps you are saying that conservatives believe in a master race, or maybe this is just Standard Issue Liberal Argument #1: You're All Racists.

All others be damned right? Putting forth that mentality has carried over into today's conservatism.Nazism rejected Liberal ideologies over and over. Much like today's conservatives do.

So rejecting liberal ideologies makes one a Nazi? Or are you just Godwinning yourself early? "Hey, you know who else was a vegetarian? HITLER!" "Hey, you know who else had thumbs? HITLER!"

This behavior has resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocent people.

Where? When? Be specific, Ghost.

And Mega, you are sorely mistaken in comparing Progressives to the Communists.

Ah, so we conservatives are supposedly linked to Naziism, but we should avoid comparing progressives (sorry, no capital letter in that) to communists, despite the fact that the progressive movement and communist movement were joined at the hip historically. Got it.

Sorry, Ghost, but the progressives were ardent supporters of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, and a whole host of other monsters. You really need to learn the history of your own beliefs.

While todays modern Progressives look at countries who have socialized a number of things, we do look at the result.

Ah, so now we're dealing with "modern" progressives, not historical ones. So it's OK for you to associate modern conservatives with Nazis, but we need to look just at you "modern" progressives.

In states with forms of Democratic Socialism, we see a lower crime rate, a lower poverty rate, and a higher life expectancy rate.

Hmm... maybe because most of those countries with democratic socialism aren't absorbing waves of poverty-stricken immigrants, and don't have the bacon double cheeseburger as their national meal.

As to crime rates, they're on the rise throughout the "democratic socialist" nations. Massively. Look at London and Paris' recent crime rates if you don't believe me.

I suppose the best one could say about democratic socialist countries is that they work for a few decades until the money runs out, until the demand for government services far outstrips the government's ability to provide those services, Then the whole thing falls apart.

For all of you, and many know history well, re-read the Road to Serfdom, and equate with the criticisms you give me.

Wait... YOU'VE read "The Road to Serfdom?" And you're still a progressive?

Read it again.

Not the ones about Che, or how someone's cats would scratch my eyes out, the ones that are up for debate.

You have mistaken an internet weblog for a scholarly work.

Most of you have shown yourselves to be content with dragging your knuckles on the ground and spouting off childish playground taunts.

(sigh) YOU ARE ARGUING POLITICS ON THE INTERNET!!! This is not friendly territory, Ghost. I gave up trying to comment on liberal blogs because I would be savaged... they were no different. Expect to be insulted. Ignore it, or insult back. But please stop complaining.

While I do not doubt you guys love our country, we do however disagree on how achieve the best possible America.

Really? Sorry, Ghost, but I've seen your lack of doubt.
I am not ready to wave my "USA #1!" sign until we start behaving like it and are actually number one.

By becoming more like other "democratic socialist" nations, with their economies that have been in the tank for years (sometimes decades)? With their chronically high unemployment? With their shrinking world presence? The irony is, Ghost, you won't start waving your "USA #1" until we aren't number one.

I think the problem here is that you don't even understand what we conservatives believe. You have a cartoonish view of us.

Posted by: Evil Otto at May 31, 2009 10:30 AM

Kharn, actually German Christians were quite supportive of Hitler. The Anti-Semitism that the Nazis promoted was drawn from Christian history and Anti-Semitic theology. German Christianity was a divinely sanctioned religious movement which combined Christian doctrine and German character in a unique and desirable manner: True Christianity was German and True German-ness was Christian.Hmm, sound familiar to you? What we have in America, is political leaders of all stripes who advocate that the United States was founded on Christian doctrine. To quote the NSDAP “We demand freedom for all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or conflict with the customs and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity, without owing itself to a particular confession....” Furthermore, Christianity historically is a religion of death and superstition, and advocates of torture hold close to their hearts their religion, without recognizing the Christ was tortured to death.The Nazis went after Communists, homosexuals,the Slavs, and Jews. More often than not the Nazi Party is categorized as center right.So, when we discuss "slaughter", we both must always keep in mind that our ideologies have some pretty ugly things in their past. Conservatism and Capitalism in their current forms are directly responsible for alot that ails America today. I have no problem with Goldwater conservatism, it is owever the Reagan conservatives that upheld the slaughter in Central America, and in the Middle East, and the latter continues to this day.

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at May 31, 2009 10:32 AM

Sounds like he making up his own liberal theories.
Posted by: Dave at May 31, 2009 9:57 AM

No Dave, it's a lot worse than that. He's so steeped in the Left Wing culture he doesn't know anything else.

KHarn, it isn't just that (what you wrote) which refutes Ghost of Wellstone. It's what Conservatives actually believe in that refutes it. What unifies us politically is our belief in Limited Government, Constitutional Republicanism, property rights as the best guarantee against tyranny, and the right of everyone to the pursuit of their happiness. Nothing of what we are and actually believe in corresponds with Ghost of Wellstone's left wing smear.

Posted by: Kevin R at May 31, 2009 10:41 AM

Basically, what Ghost just pulled was a reductio ad hitlerum.

Now, of course, he's going to claim that we pulled the same thing with comparisons of liberals to communists. And if we're just talking liberals, I agree. However, Ghost calls himself a "progressive," a word that has a very specific meaning. Progressives, historically, were supporters of communist dictatorships, Italian fascism, eugenics, and all sorts of other nasty ideas. They openly talked about breeding better people, a sort of "new man." And they weren't too concerned with what would happen to all those they considered "inferior," which generally meant those with darker skin.

So, Ghost... are you SURE you want to be a progressive?

Posted by: Evil Otto at May 31, 2009 10:46 AM

it is owever the Reagan conservatives that upheld the slaughter in Central America, and in the Middle East, and the latter continues to this day.
Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at May 31, 2009 10:32 AM

Tell me about the slaughter, Ghost of Wellstone.

Posted by: Kevin R at May 31, 2009 10:46 AM

So, Ghost... are you SURE you want to be a progressive?

Maybe Ghost doesn't know the history of the Progressive movement.

Posted by: Kevin R at May 31, 2009 10:48 AM

I have no problem with Goldwater conservatism, it is owever the Reagan conservatives that upheld the slaughter in Central America, and in the Middle East, and the latter continues to this day.

Really? And the communists had NOTHING to do with the "slaughter" in Central America? The Muslims have nothing to do with the slaughter in the Middle east? We conservatives "upheld" it, which presumably means it wouldn't have happened if we hadn't intervened.

Posted by: Evil Otto at May 31, 2009 10:54 AM

Hey, if we're talking about slaughter, let's look at one of the great victories of the environmental movement: the banning of DDT. Roughly one million deaths every year from a preventable disease, malaria, a disease that had almost been wiped out in many parts of the developing world until DDT was banned. One million, year in, year out, and almost all from the poorest, the ones leftists claim to care about so deeply.

That's quite a pile of corpses. That's OK, I guess they meant well.

Posted by: Evil Otto at May 31, 2009 11:10 AM

Kevin R that is a very scary observation. It makes wonder how many "Ghost Of Wellstones" are out there and running the country.

Evil Otto I enjoyed your post @10:30am

Casper the wellstoned ghost you have a mental disease called liberalism that is contagious especially to grade school kids and college students. The symptoms are obvious. For Americas sake please go get some help before you make our youth sick with your disease.

We conservative have a natural immunity to you disease. It's truth and facts as well as values.

Posted by: Dave at May 31, 2009 11:18 AM

More often than not the Nazi Party is categorized as center right.So, when we discuss "slaughter", we both must always keep in mind that our ideologies have some pretty ugly things in their past.
Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at May 31, 2009 10:32 AM

LOL!!! And this is what passes for informed thought in the Ghost of Wellstone household.

"Center right." That's a hell of an abstraction. And then there is the American "center right." Therefor, they share something in common with Nazis.

"More often than not the Nazi Party is categorized as center right." Based on what principles? Who has categorized the Nazi Party as "center right?" Do you know the etymology of that canard, Ghost of Wellstone? It was Joseph Stalin that started calling the Nazi's Right Wing. LOL!!! Now that's funny. The Nazi Party categorized as "center right."

Do you know how to reduce abstractions down to principles, Ghost of Wellstone, and then compare them? LOL!!!

Ghost of Wellstone I called you a partisan political hack before but now I've changed my mind, you don't have the intelligence to even rate as a partisan political hack.

Posted by: Kevin R at May 31, 2009 12:46 PM

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at May 31, 2009 10:32 AM

So take that Christians! Because there were Nazi's you've got a lot to live down!

/sarc

What an smear.

I'm not even a Christian and I find what Ghost of Wellstone wrote to be incredibly offensive.

Posted by: Kevin R at May 31, 2009 1:15 PM

And because the Left refers to the Nazi's as Right Wing and there is an American political group called the Right Wing they are guilty by association!

/sarc

Ghost of Wellstone, the Nazi's political principles emanated from a wholly COLLECTIVIST view of every aspect of life, even humanity in their view was divided into different collectives - race. Conservatives completely reject any and all collectivist ideas. We are the antithesis of collectivism.

Posted by: Kevin R at May 31, 2009 1:29 PM

"Nazis were ELITISTS, as are MODERN LIBERALS. Liberals believe in in a massive national government answerable only to itself, as did nazis. Liberals believe that all production should be controled by this government, as did nazis. Liberals believe in "one world government" as did the nazis. Liberals are obsessed with race, are were nazis. Liberals are opponants of Christian organizations, as were the nazis. Liberals don't like competition from religious or political groups, neither did the nazis."
Don't forget, both Nazis and modern liberals are big fans of abortion. Hitler was quoted as saying he viewed abortion as an invaluable method of thinning out the non- Aryan populations in areas the Nazis took over.

Oh, and Wellstone, nice hateful rant about Christians, you clueless bigot.
News flash: Plenty of Christians also suffered and/ or died during the Holocaust, such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Corrie ten Boom, and any Christian clergy who dared to voice any kind of opposition to the Holocaust.
What's more, as has been noted, another reason why the Nazis cannot be considered Christians is how heavily their party and its leaders were influenced by paganism and the occult, especially towards the end of the war.
"Furthermore, Christianity historically is a religion of death and superstition,"
That's the same thing that so many of the enlightened Communist leaders in Russia, China, etc., said to justify persecuting, torturing, and executing tens of millions of Christians who refused to become atheists.

Posted by: Adam at May 31, 2009 3:02 PM

"Grand Wizard, we did not weep. Weeping is for women, and liberals and other bathhouse habitues. Men want vengeance." Real men want justice. If for one second, you lived up to the American values you claim to represent you would understand that.

Real men? How would you know about that, or about American values? In the context of 9/11, vengeance is justice. I infer from your posts and your anti-Christian diatribe that you’re Jewish. Should we have given the Nazi war criminals a skip instead of trying them? Israel exacted vengeance/justice on Eichmann. Inappropriate? Unjust? Enlighten me.

As for 70 years of Conservative slaughter. Let's start with Nazi Germany.

OK, let’s do. Hitler was a socialist. Got it? First, let’s define our terms:

socialism - Any of various political philosophies that support social and economic equality, collective decision-making, and public control of productive capital and natural resources, as advocated by socialists; The socialist political philosophies as a group, including Marxism, libertarian socialism ... en.wiktionary.org/wiki/socialism

socialism - An economic system in which the basic means of production are primarily owned and controlled collectively, usually by government under some system of central planning. countrystudies.us/united-states/economy-12.htm

Hitler controlled the German economy through Albert Speer, kind of his Rahm Emanuel, by implementing what had been called “war socialism” during WWI. That meant that the government controlled the economy to produce war materiel. (Btw, we had pretty much the same thing during WWII.)

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler (Speech of May 1, 1927.)

From the NSDAP platform:

13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.

So Hitler was a socialist, beyond any doubt. Where you went wrong was in identifying socialism with Marxism. Hitler was most definitely not a Marxist, but his philosophical mentor, Mussolini, had been for many years, and was highly-regarded by Lenin. Seeing the power of nationalism during WWI, Mussolini modified Marxism by changing its emphasis from uniting the working class across nations (international socialism – workers of the world and all that) to make it uniting all classes within one nation – national socialism.

To put it more broadly, the labels “left” and “right,” along with “liberal” and “conservative,” are so muddled now as to be meaningless. Was a Politburo member trying to save Soviet communism a leftist or rightist? Was he liberal or conservative? You see the point. “Liberal” in the 19th century, when the term was coined, meant someone who advocated the primacy of the individual over authority (the state, the monarch, the aristocracy, and the church), whereas a conservative favored those things (and were mostly monarchists or aristocrats). Thus the terms aren’t really relevant today.

A more useful set of terms is “collectivist” or “statist” and “individualist.” The Politburo member above is clearly a collectivist. So is Obama. So are you (as well as a racist and sexist). You favor the collective over the individual, as evidenced by your obsession with identity politics.

When you consider the deaths that resulted in the name of "master race", the idea that the "other" members of society should focus on being productive in order to uphold the pillars of the society.

Why can’t you see that that is exactly where we’re going right now with our “wise Latinas?” All that’s changed is which race we’re talking about. Some races get preferential treatment over others. It’s profoundly immoral. Surely you can see that?

The “other” members of society that should focus on being productive in order to uphold the pillars of the society are now small businessmen, i.e., Republicans. The wealthy duck their taxes, and the poor don’t pay any. Small businessmen – the core of Republican support – end up getting hosed: hence the tea parties.

And Mega, you are sorely mistaken in comparing Progressives to the Communists.

He absolutely is not. Progressives were very much like the communists in many respects; they just left out the Marxist part of socialism. They advocated implementation of eugenics, and specifically the sterilization of the mentally and physically unfit (where Hitler got the idea, btw), and they started Planned Parenthood specifically to hold down the Negro population (whom they considered to be mentally unfit).

In states with forms of Democratic Socialism, we see a lower crime rate, a lower poverty rate, and a higher life expectancy rate.

Rubbish. First, different countries collect statistics in different ways (most notably in infant mortality). Second, the problem with crime, poverty, and life expectancy in the US is pretty much the blacks (leading cause of death among black males: black on black homicide). Sorry to be blunt, but it’s true. Third, European countries get a massive subsidy from the US by not having to provide for their own defense. Fourth, think about it: why do Europeans immigrate here if things are so great there? I lived in Europe for many years, and believe me, many Europeans would kill to come to the US, and thought I was crazy to live there.

While I do not doubt you guys love our country, we do however disagree on how achieve the best possible America. I am not ready to wave my "USA #1!" sign until we start behaving like it and are actually number one.

Yeah, I don’t my wife either. I mean, until she becomes the best possible woman. Lose a few pounds, maybe get a makeover, then maybe I’ll think about it. And those kids better do well in school if they want any love from me. /sarc

Face it, you don’t love America, not as it is now, ever has been, or indeed, ever will be. That’s why on the previous thread you couldn’t say “I love America.” The words stuck in your throat, as they do almost all liberals. You are mildly fond of an abstraction that will never see the light of day.

Can you see, now, why we doubt your patriotism?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 31, 2009 4:02 PM

That should be: "I don't love my wife either.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at May 31, 2009 6:30 PM

You're a lot more patient than I am, Jay.

Posted by: Kevin R at June 1, 2009 9:17 AM