« Obama's Economic Stimulus Flow Chart | Main | Harry Reid Calls Hundreds of Thousands of Jobs Destroyed "Great Progress" »

This is the scariest stuff going...more so (if that's possible) than Obama-care.

Co2 is a "PUBLIC DANGER". Nevermind we need it to live, and plants thrive on it.

I seriously can see them using it to totally control human behavior. YOU EXHALE what is now a "pollutant" and a "public danger". While they can't (for now) outlaw breathing, by God they sure could use it to control travel, industry, the economy...and to tie it into health care...perhaps even how long you'll be allowed to "pollute" the atmosphere (i.e. "live").

This isn't conspiracy theory, this is nut-cutting, dollar-driven POLITICS.

Wake up, John Doe. Don't wait 'til the game is called on account of darkness!

I just finished an intense taekwondo workout. Still breathing heavily, heart rate still up.

I am so busted.

EPA states production of CO2 criminal.Their employees exhale.Must we prevent criminal acts of EPA employees?Or will they hold their breath for entire employment period?

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.

If that is the case, then here is my thousand word explanation of what climate change is really about.

The simplicity of that statement is stunning, but yet, it describes exactly why us common folk must be declared pollutants by the EPA.

If they seriously proceed with this legislation, the lawsuit angle isn't a bad idea. Tie them up in court using their own insane laws!

If Co2 is truly a pollutant and a "public danger", then all sources of it must fall under the law. I'm trying to think of creative ways of suing the government. As John R said, all federal employees will be emitting this deadly toxin...how can that be allowed? All human activity, in fact, causes Co2 emissions, so mustn't it by law be stopped? You can't allow a "certain percentage" of a toxic substance...a gas that is a PUBLIC DANGER...to be spewed into Mother Gaia, just because it is necessary for human life...RIGHT?

Oh, we're GOING TO SEE YOU IN COURT, dipsticks! Your own law is going to bite you in the ass AND HOW! COUNT ON IT!

Human beings emit CO2, so this ruling would - in principal - allow the EPA to regulate us. This is a very dangerous precedent. Allowing the government to regulate the air we exhale is allowing them to wrap a garotte around our necks.

You are frightened that breathing is going to be regulated by the EPA totalitarians and this is a coup d'etat!?

I thought the paranoia of the far right was ridiculous before now. This is comedy gold!

Do you people EVER actually think that your fears might be...flawed??

If there was any goverment agency that needed to be totaly eradicated its the EPA Its become another group of eco-nazis under the green swastika

This is the icing on the cake folks! This could go along way to convince the public why big government is bad. Just now we need a united conservative voice to rally the populace.

While I doubt CO2 is anywhere near as bad as the likes of the IPCC paint it, and think it can go up a bit without doing all that much harm, "Obviously CO2 is not a pollutant, as it is an essential element of our atmosphere without which there could be no plant life and therefore no animal life." is a step much too far. Heck, we need [atmospheric] oxygen, too: but we would not live very long in a pure oxygen breathing environment. Please do not fall into the same overstatement style as Prof. Hansen and his ilk.

screeched Lao:

You are frightened that breathing is going to be regulated by the EPA totalitarians and this is a coup d'etat!?

I thought the paranoia of the far right was ridiculous before now. This is comedy gold!

Do you people EVER actually think that your fears might be...flawed??

What's it like to exist in two dimensions, bereft of both depth (to see beyond the end of your nose) and time (to understand temporal progression)?

Sorry, this was the whole quote:

You are frightened that breathing is going to be regulated by the EPA totalitarians and this is a coup d'etat!?

I thought the paranoia of the far right was ridiculous before now. This is comedy gold!

Do you people EVER actually think that your fears might be...flawed??

You are frightened that breathing is going to be regulated by the EPA totalitarians and this is a coup d'etat!?

No, not really, moron. We are frightened that EVERYTHING ELSE will be regulated by EPA totalitarians and their enablers like you. We've seen that there are no limits to the amount of control you would like over our lives, for our own good and the good of the planet, of course.

I thought the paranoia of the far right was ridiculous before now. This is comedy gold!

Comedy gold is watching you try to argue a point. You're like bad-movie director Ed Wood... so convinced of your genius, and yet so terrible at it. If Ed Wood were a whiny douchebag, that is.

Read: The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.

Read what Wyatt's Torch wrote at 1:52 above again, and attack his actual argument, not your bizarre extreme interpretation of it.

Do you people EVER actually think that your fears might be...flawed??

Have YOU ever come across a nanny state program you didn't like? Has there EVER been a point when you thought, "Hey, maybe the federal government shouldn't be regulating CARBON FRIKKIN' DIOXIDE like it was dioxin!"?

That's what's sick about you and your fellow leftist drones, Lao... here in a story about the EPA declaring one of the most common substances on the planet, something breathed out by every animal, something vital to life on this planet a PUBLIC DANGER, and your first thought is to rip into US about it. No outrage towards the government, no cynicism of their plans, no questioning of their motives, just an opportunity for you to take another shot at conservatives. Glad we could help you out.

I'm waiting for you and your ignorant statist buddies to try to ban dihydrogen monoxide. That stuff killed one of my friends, and the EPA does NOTHING about it.

Posted by: John A at December 6, 2009 4:11 PM

"Poison is in everything, and no thing is without poison. The dosage makes it either a poison or a remedy." ~Paracelsus

By the EPA's logic, it must indeed regulate all things, because all things in the wrong amount may be a public danger.

You are frightened that breathing is going to be regulated by the EPA totalitarians and this is a coup d'etat!?

Prominent climate alarmists have already proposed full government control and licensing of reproductive matters, on the logic that only couples with government permission should be bringing more carbon-spewing children into the world.

These enviromoonbats have advocated for child licensing, mandatory contraception, sterilants in the drinking water, reproductive tax penalties, child confiscation, and forced abortion, all in the name of the planet.

The cult of Gaia also maintains a strong depopulationist following, which bluntly advocates for immediate and drastic reductions in population. I've seen a range of "optimal" populations from these kooks, with the usual high end of the range being at two billion. Others are much lower.

I have no faith in the mental composure of any interest group throwing around policy terms such as "surplus population."

Equally disturbing is the administration's desire to ram this through by executive fiat after it died in Congress.

Hey Lao, I'm hanging it right out there in front of you. Bite Me!

An Exxon-Mobile comercial had a guy promassing that they will remove CO2 from natural gas and seal it up to prevent it from getting into the atmosphere.

Why do you Liberals want to deprive plants of one of the elements they need to live? Why do you HATE PLANTS?

The end game is near as the US Government Ecoterrorists are going to ram Tax and Tax based on Mann Made Global Warming Hoax, through the EPA and other regulations (not laws – regulations and fees, fines and lawsuits) to make Obama look good in Copenhagen (Hopenagen).

An "endangerment" finding by the Environmental Protection Agency could pave the way for the government to require businesses that emit carbon dioxide and five other greenhouse gases to make costly changes in machinery to reduce emissions -- even if Congress doesn't pass pending climate-change legislation.

An EPA spokeswoman declined to comment Sunday on when the agency might finalize its proposed endangerment finding.

WSJ Article - Business Fumes Over EPA Rule
Carbon-Dioxide Emissions to Face Curbs

Liberals - "Why do you hate plants?"

Bwahahahaha!! It gets better and better!

I recommend that one as a 2010 campaign slogan.

Hey Lao...

Has it occurred to you to wonder WHY something exhaled by every animal on Earth and used by every plant might be declared a pollutant? Have you ever paused to consider the fact that CO2 always FOLLOWS warming, rather than preceding it?

Be sure to write again when you're all grown up.

If there was any goverment agency that needed to be totaly eradicated its the EPA Its become another group of eco-nazis under the green swastika

Posted by: SPURWING PLOVER at December 6, 2009 3:42 PM

That would be near the top of my list if ever we are able to rein these Borg lovers in, but I still say the Dept of Education has first place. JMHO.

Lao, as usual, completely unable to offer a rebuttal of any kind.

Seriously. Does this moron have any tools in his belt other than sarcasm, hyperbole, and strawmen?

Idiot.

Lao, you can Bite Me.

Seriously. Does this moron have any tools in his belt other than sarcasm, hyperbole, and strawmen?

Don't forget whining. He whines a lot, too.

Environmentalism is the "New Communism" and in short, it is "Demand Destruction"

Reminds me of a hiddeously bad movie that keeps popping up on RTN network - Solarbabies - where these goons called the E Police - store all the water in California in huge underground bunkers and only release enough for people to barely survive. Something like that is our future if the EPA Nazis get their way.

Posters to this thread said:

"Allowing the government to regulate the air we exhale is allowing them to wrap a garotte around our necks."

AND

"Why do you Liberals want to deprive plants of one of the elements they need to live? Why do you HATE PLANTS?"

After I offered some well-deserved mockery of those points of view, others got their knickers in a twist.

If you dislike being laughed at, try not to make statements that are laughable.

I was asked: "Have you ever paused to consider the fact that CO2 always FOLLOWS warming, rather than preceding it?"

This is true as applied to the long-term NATURAL cycle where CO2 is released from the oceans over hundreds of years, after a warming trend.

At issue, however, is the much larger percentage of CO2 that is now present in the atmosphere thanks to industrial processes.

The cult of Gaia also maintains a strong depopulationist following, which bluntly advocates for immediate and drastic reductions in population.

Posted by: Anonymous Countermoonbat at December 6, 2009 5:03 PM

Yeah, and notice how they start by reducing the population of EVERYONE ELSE, rather than starting with THEMSELVES! Hypocrites All!!!

Posted by: Lao at December 7, 2009 8:49 AM

At issue, however, is the much larger percentage of CO2 that is now present in the atmosphere thanks to industrial processes.

Lao, can you tell us what 'normal' is supposed to be? What percentage of the atmosphere should be CO2? OFf that, what percentage comes from natural sources - ocean, geothermal, volcanic activity, etc.?

And, once you tell us, then where did you get your numbers? From those pro-AGW scientists who also are basing their 'theory' of AGW on temperature data that have now been proven to be highly suspect at very best, and utterly fabricated to promote a political end at worst? (I'm being generous here)

Of course it all doesn't matter anymore anyway, since the EPA just decided today to make what VH warned us about become fact: your and my exhalations now constitute a public danger.

Can't wait for the first lawsuits from folks who get sick on the job, and try to blame their CO2-generating coworkers.

pomalom, you get to join the paranoid breathers club.

If you want CO2 numbers you can go to the web I expect.

Re the e-mails, the flimsiest of "evidence" is regularly taken to indicate the Moonbattery gospel truth.

Lao, I suspect you can't get the numbers because you don't want to see what they reveal. Scientific facts (as compared to "scientific" wishful thinking) are pesky things, aren't they.

Doesn't it disturb you, just a teeny bit, that the two foundations of the whole AGW story have been blown out of the water? CO2 preceding temperature rise (doesn't), and the AGW-modeling predictions for late 20th-early 21st century 'manmade' temperature rise (failed) All that wasted research money going to corrupt climatologists could have gone instead to, Idunno, curing AIDS or feeding the poor.

I thought the paranoia of the far right was ridiculous before now. This is comedy gold!

Posted by: Lao at December 6, 2009 3:24 PM

Fellow patriots: ignore the troll. Ridicule of the opposition is just an Alinsky tactic to make us back down and be run over...

I thought the paranoia of the far right was ridiculous before now. This is comedy gold!

Posted by: Lao at December 6, 2009 3:24 PM

Fellow patriots: ignore the troll. Ridicule of the opposition is just an Alinsky tactic to make us back down and be run over...

Western civilization is based on human freedom and that freedom is supposed to be guaranteed by our form of government. None of us would be alive and there is nothing that sustains our lives without human freedom. If the people in government turn government's purpose-in-being on its head and destroys the foundation on which civilization rests, human freedom, then civilization is destroyed too. I mean everything your life depends on stops, ceases, is no longer in existence. That can't be emphasized enough. I don't know what people are counting on to keep themselves alive. You destroy the very basis on which we depend for our very lives, freedom, and it's over.

What the people in government should be saying about AGW and any response to AGW is that the purpose of government in a free country is to guarantee that people are free to decide their own minds and act on their own beliefs so long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. The people in government should be saying that if the government uses the force of government to make people follow the beliefs of some of the population on everyone else then a Pandora's Box of tyranny and destruction will be opened and where that tyranny and destruction will take us will engulf the entire society and will destroy everything that makes life possible and worth living.

That's what people in government would say if they had any comprehension of the stakes involved.

Lao, as usual, chooses his fights carefully. Find a misspelled word. Take a sarcastic remark and focus on that. Obfuscate. Distort. WASTE TIME.

Lao knows damn well what the stakes are. I have come to the opinion that he is conflicted due to the irreconcilable facts that he at once believes he is the most intelligent, well-informed person in the world and at the same time has a strong self-loathing and feels the need to be dominated by an ever-present Big Brother government. Just my opinion.

My point, Lao, is that this ruling gives government the ability to control our lives using "public danger" of Co2 as their excuse.

But you knew that.

Lao, what is the most plentiful greenhouse gas in the atmosphere:

a) methane
b) CO2
c) nitrogen
d) water vapor
e) none of the above

???

The answer of course is d - water vapor. It is part of the natural atmospheric and ecosystem feedback system as is CO2, and also comes from lots of manmade activity as well: out of power plants, factories, exhaust pipes, breathing, etc. It's one of the main byproducts of any combustion process.

Rough approximation of the contributors to the natural greenhouse effect:
60% water vapor
20% CO2
20% other incl ozone and methane

Why isn't the EPA also calling water vapor a public danger I wonder... ?!