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I posted part of this elsewhere.

So could KSM "walk"? If we believe in innocent until proven guilty, then he could. We can't claim anyone is getting a fair trial if we also state they are going to be found guilty.

Will KSM get a fair trail? Moussaoui and the shoe bomber were tried in the U.S. and are now in jail. Why should the trial for KSM end up differently? There's lots of evidence against him that's admissible, not the least of which are his confessions.

What about a propaganda soapbox? Moussaoui played that game at his trial. As he was led out of the courtroom, Moussaoui clapped his hands and said, "America, you lost... I won." Judge Brinkema responded by telling him that he would "die with a whimper" and "never get a chance to speak again."

If we are afraid that our justice system can't deal with terrorists, or their voices in the courtroom, then we are admitting that the "terror" that those people unleashed has been successful.

Great Article!!

Van: Nicely and accurately stated.

To add a detail to this travesty, Eric Holder has promised a conviction (i.e., a showtrial) but along with BO has called waterboarding "torture"(....aw..)
Since KSM gave up stuff under waterboarding, that evidence will be argued as inadmissible.
Moreover Holder has to be aware that the defense (KSM will probably represent himself in order to get in his rant) will challenge every word, hiss, or burp the terrorists snarled during interrogations. And, bc the admissions were obtained by the military, they cannot now be brought into a civilian trial as evidence anyway.

Thus Holder and BO know that KSM could easily evade a death sentence (which he wouldn't get in NY anyway). Absolutely despicable.

This whole thing is set up to curry favor with terrorists and muslims against the U.S.

Michael Mukasey (a much more respectable AG- under Bush) has correctly stated that terrorists are at war with the U.S.

You have to ask, who exactly, besides the terrorists and the BO administration and the left will benefit from this move from a military trial to a civilian one?
Certainly not the victims of 9/11, their families, or the majority of Americans.

What is the benefit of this move?
There is none whatsoever for Americans and in fact this will likely lead to more terrorist activities in which more people will die.

So now maybe in this context, some of you liberals can try and explain once again how it is that the left are not at war with their own country?
The left is indeed at war with America and they are being led like fools by BO.

On reflection, and I'm sure liberals would argue the point, but I think VH put it exactly right here;

Electing BO is the most contemptible event in American history.

I seem to recall that KSM had a plan to down many aircraft into the oceans and he would fly a hijacked aircraft into NY and give a speech against the infidels. It got nixed by OBL but looks like in the end he got his way by other means.

robin

KSM should not be in jail for life. He should be dead. He should have already been killed without any last words.

KSM's confession will be inadmissible in a civilian court for a minimum of at least two reasons: 1) since it was derived under "torture" and 2) obtained by military interrogations without the presence of appropriate (key word) legal representation.
Other reasons for narrowing the scope of evidence will be found due to lack of precedence.

If we are afraid that our justice system can't deal with terrorists, or their voices in the courtroom, then we are admitting that the "terror" that those people unleashed has been successful.

You are referring to our civilian justice system I take it, which is for American citizens that have Constitutional rights. Americans need to get clear on this point. The BO administration is apparently not.

BTW I have nothing against KSM voicing a rant as long as it is not in a courtroom within the boarders of the U.S., he only speaks to liberals and terrorists just prior to execution and with a rectal microphone.

They make those?

The World Trade Center bombers were non American I believe and they were tried and convicted.

The shoe bomber is British, he was tried and convicted.

Moussasaoui is French, he was tried and convicted.

KSM should have had a speedy trial by military tribunal and executed. One shot to the head, then one more - just to make sure.

Radical Islamists declared WAR on America - turning this into the equivalent of civilian crime that is tried in civilian courts is the wrong way to go as the KSM trial (which could last years with endless appeals) will become a media circus with left wing loons defending this animal to the bitter end. It could also be a magnet for terrorist attacks on NYC.

KSM is as much of a threat to peaceful Muslims as he is to everyone else. Though the Koran teaches that Muslims should kill non Muslims who refuse to convert to Islam, the vast majority dont actually do it.

The fact that we have tried terrorists before and have gotten convictions is not the point being made here. These cases do not establish clarity for bringing a terrorist into a courtroom on U.S. soil and protecting his newly-granted Constitutional "rights".
KSM is not going anywhere. He will be convicted of A crime. At what expense?

BTW now that you bring up Moussasaoui, recall that were it not for Eric Holder intervening with the search of his computer with an idiotic illegal search & seizure argument, the 9/11 terrorists may have been discovered in time.

I don't think there will be any debate about which side of the death penalty Holder comes down on.

These guys are getting what they want: publicity for Islam. "Look, we did it, there are the holes in the ground and WE'RE BACK TO THUMB OUR NOSES AT YOU INFIDELS!" It's sickening.

Robin, if your dad or brother or aunt got killed in the 9-11 attacks, I doubt whether you'd be sitting there in all your academic splendor, waxing on about our justice system and fair trials. These vermin could have had a very fair Military Tribunal and been dispensed with while not giving them a megaphone and putting U.S. citizens (once again) at risk.

This trial is going to be a magnet for propaganda (think Al Jazeera) and a HUGE target for terror. How fantastic would it be if some Moslems could blow up the courthouse and in one stroke martyr the bad guys, kill a thousand infidels and show that our justice system has no power over Islam?

But hey...we must be careful not to violate the rights of the people who destroyed the WTC and declared war on America. RIGHT?

U. S. Constitution, Article III, Section 3;
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in ADHERING TO THEIR ENEMIES, GIVING THEM AID AND COMFORT. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

U. S. Code Title 18; Section 2381:
Whoever, OWING ALLEGIANCE TO THE UNITED STATES, levies war against them or ADHERES TO THEIR ENEMIES, GIVING THEM AID OR COMFORT WITHIN THE UNITED STATES or elsewhere, IS GUILTY OF TREASON and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States. (Caps added)

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States - Barak Obama, U.S. AG, et, al.

Adheres to their enemies -
Al-Qaeda, Talabam, et, al.

Giving them aid and comfort, in the United States -
Trial, protection, American civil liberties in New York.

Is guilty of treason.

How much more explicit can it be?

It will be interesting to see how this turns out: what meager penalty will this administration insist upon should KSM be convicted; what a whirlwind the dems will reap in the event of acquittal. If you think we're pissed off now, Mr Pres'ent...

I don't get this talk about terrorist "propaganda". What is the most horrible thing KSM can say that is going to make any kind of difference to the victim's families or to us?

He can brag about what he did and laugh at his victims and their grieving families and the destruction he caused. So? He's done that already and we know it. We expect it. Let him rave. It holds he and his cause up before the world as a ruthless fanatic and that is a victory for us.

The satisfaction for victim's families is that he is being tried in an open court under our terms. I imagine that family members of victims could choose to attend the trial.

Death for KSM is what would give the terrorists a propaganda victory. Martyrdom is what he and they want, so don't give it to them. I'd rather see him locked in a cage forever.

VH said:

The election of Barack Hussein Obama is without question the most contemptible event in American history.

Agreed. Let's call it what it was: an act of terrorism, gradually unfolding lo these 10 months.

Posted by: Eric at November 14, 2009 12:41 PM

Is guilty of treason. How much more explicit can it be?

Eric, I think you meant to write "Barack Hussein Obama" in there - that sentence had no subject. Otherwise, agreed.

"There's lots of evidence against him that's admissible, not the least of which are his confessions."
Unfortunately, he'll probably get some liberal lawyer who'll try to convince the judge to dismiss the case on the grounds that KSM's "Rights" were "Violated" by his incarceration. Whether this will be successful or not depends on the judge.
Wyatt's Torch also makes a good point: Security for the trial better be tough as nails, because a civilian trial for KSM would be a prime target for a terrorist attack, considering how undoubtedly packed the courthouse would be that day.
"Electing BO is the most contemptible event in American history."
Time will tell, but I think that may be an exaggeration. I mean, look at the Sand Creek Massacre for one example.
robin also makes a good point: Terrorists such as him value death (Especially death in which they can be viewed as martyrs) much more than life. While he certainly deserves the death penalty, a far more torturous punishment, for him at least, would be life without parole in a maximum security prison, preferably with a) a few cellmates who lost loved ones on 9/11, and b) a few lonely cellmates eager to help KSM get in touch with his feminine side, if you catch my drift.

I don't get this talk about terrorist "propaganda".

The satisfaction for victim's families is that he (KSM) is being tried in an open court under our terms.

He can brag about what he did and laugh at his victims and their grieving families and the destruction he caused. So?

I was wondering just how stupid this robin guy/gal was going to get.

These pretty well answer the question.

What's amazing about liberals is that if they stood naked in front of a mirror and examined their reflection, they could still not see their own shortcomings.

naw, they want the terrorists in NY so that they will be eligible to vote for Obama in 2012,,,,,

The context of David Niven's quip was much funnier than your feeble rip off Fiberal.

The "quip" (joke) did not belong to Niven. It was around long before he used it on a streaker.
The gag is public property and there is no attribution warranted.

But hey, I appreciate your hard-won ability to discern the important issues.

Pulllleaze!!

The World Trade Center bombers were non American I believe and they were tried and convicted.

The shoe bomber is British, he was tried and convicted.

Moussasaoui is French, he was tried and convicted.

Posted by: robin at November 14, 2009 11:03 AM

And, they are all alive and well; Taking up valuable space; Getting three squares a day; Free health care; H1N1 vaccinations; All, at OUR expense. Yes, the American people are being sentenced: To take care of this slime, for the rest of their lives. I'm sure they'll also have quite a captive forum in which to convert their imprisoned brethren. To hate, maim and kill even more innocents. This is the ultimate slap in the face to America. Not to mention, great business for Covington & Burling, LLP. Even if they are convicted, perhaps later, whole case can be overturned because of the AG's conflicts of interest.

batman at November 14, 2009 5:37 PM
batman,
Its not even a space/money issue...We tried these creeps in American courts as criminals and look what happened.


(As Posted by the ridiculous robin at November 14, 2009 11:03 AM):


The World Trade Center bombers were non American I believe and they were tried and convicted.

The shoe bomber is British, he was tried and convicted.

Moussasaoui is French, he was tried and convicted.



And trying them as criminals instead of war criminals did no good; if anything it showed weakness that led to 9-11.
As war criminals they should have had a military hearing and then hung on the spot.

Liberals want to continue on the same track of trying war criminals in American courts bc it will exacerbate the terrorist war; and Americans will get killed. Treasonous liberals side with terrorists and thus are at war with their own kind.

The more death they see, the better they like it.

Eric,
You have an excellent point: BO is aiding and abetting terrorists who are at war against the U.S.

There is absolutely no essential reason whatsoever that KSM should be tried in NYC, other than to provide for him the possibility of escaping a death sentence or even an acquittal. Moreover, the trial will carry on for years during which time NYC will become an even greater target for a terrorist act than it already is. For exactly no reason other than to assist KSM.

As such, this meets the definition of treason and is impeachable.

Were it only the case now that we had a House and Senate not occupied by treasonous liberals.

It holds he [sic] and his cause up before the world as a ruthless fanatic and that is a victory for us.

Who's us? (Besides the syntactically challenged, such as yourself?) The Muslims? The Reds?

(Btw, in English direct objects take objective case, not nominative case. Have a high school graduate or other higher primate explain it to you.)

KSM is not going to get a fair trial.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0%2C8599%2C1939374%2C00.html

He is brain fried as a result of his being severely tortured. I doubt he can effectively assist in his own defense and he should be seen with pity.

He is a victim, too.

KSM's Opening Statement - Priceless To Him

Legally worthless. Eerily similar to political rhetoric we hear in this country. Possibly music to the ears of a secretly sympathic juror.

But to KSM, the chance to give such a lecture in the shadows of the former Twin Towers, a short distance from where thousands of infidels died, in a room face to face with the loved ones who still mourn .... to him, it will be priceless.

===

Oh, and f@ck you, GoW. You're an even more worthless piece of human excrement than I first thought you were.

Eerily similar to political rhetoric we hear in this country.

Liberals will listen to KSM and will believe the words of a man who reached down to a bound, blind-folded Daniel Pearl and hacked through his neck with a blunt knife.

For liberals, KSM will be the man they idolize as does apparently, BO.



Look Wellstoned, who do think you are now? A neurologist?

It must at some point have dawned on you, that you are not worth spit.
But keep posting genius. Its a good exercise for decent people who come to this blog to see what a liberal fascist looks like wallowing in terrorist excrement.

The election of Barack Hussein Obama is without question the most contemptible event in American history.
Posted by Van Helsing

There are so many things that are wrong with that statement, but there is no point in discussing them because reason and thought are lost on your backwards brain.

And this isn't even because I think Obama is a decent guy and you don't.
You need some perspective before you make such exaggerated and clearly false claims.

You always claim that Liberals are insane, but which Americans are really the crazy ones these days?
The ones who think the world is heating up based on scientific analysis and who believe in the power of tangible Earth rather than an unseen man floating in another dimension,
or the ones who believe that the president is behind a massive conspiracy to forcibly convert the American public to Islam based purely on the colour of his skin, his middle name and a terrorist attack that occurred 7 years before he was elected?

For people who supposedly respect the idea of freedom of speech, and the belief that nobody is guilty until proven so, you are frighteningly quick to condemn a man to oblivion without first being allowed to defend himself.

I am in no way supporting the detestable acts committed on 9/11, but if the man in question is only admitting to these crimes after being tortured by his captors (which is another debate in itself), how can you deny him his right to plead innocent?
(“screw you hippie scum” is not an answer, it is an excuse to remain indignant within a group of people who agree with you)

Aquatookus, are you quite done?

You have no idea whatsoever of what torture is. US military are water-boarded as part of their training, and they happily live another day, hopefully to take out more Al Qaeda.

Please consult John McCain on the meaning of TORTURE. I'm no fan of his maverick politics, but man, did he get tortured by those VK bastards. KSM is a pussy in comparison, cracked like an egg.

Please take the rest of your meaningless brain droppings over to HuffPo, DU, or KOS. Shoo, now.

BTW, Aquaturd, VH's statement on the dark day that was the election of Obama wasn't far off the mark. Pearl Harbor, 9/11, Ft. Hood, and the assassinations of Lincoln and Kennedy were pretty darn awful. The list goes on of horrors inflicted on our nation from without and within. But nothing fits "Contemptable" like the election of BHO. He is the worst US president in modern history, only after 10 months. He and his minions are destroying our country from within in so many ways, it's dizzying.

Just what the likes of you and your internationalist, blame America first crowd love about the man, as well. I know. I have Brit friends (yes, still 'friends' believe it or not) who worship The One admittedly for this reason alone: he is tearing down America.

Friendship is an odd thing, isn't it.

Pomalom, I apologize for being so myopic. Its just that I get so frustrated with my lack of any real manhood that I have to come to a conservative blog, in another country mind you, and vent my bloody spleen.

While I should be out doing something about the gradual and not so subtle take over of my nation by Islamists, I just don;t have the stones to do so.

Please accept my heartfelt apology for being such a useless queef.

KSM should receive the thanks of a grateful nation, since we had 9/11 coming for oppressing Muslims. He was just expressing his condemnation of imperialist oppression. We should reward him for helping to educate us in the error of our ways.

Aquatarkus is right. Liberals are the sane ones, the ones who realize that global warming is a real threat, whereas Muslims are not. Any sane person can see that. When have Muslims ever harmed anyone? Seriously, can any of you wingnuts cite a single instance when Muslims have ever harmed anyone? But global warming harms everyone, everyday. Anyone can see that.

Aqua -- If you examine your beloved 'scientific analysis' more intelligently, you might discover that as honest science (particularly physics) advances, it is moving closer to proving the existence of other dimensions far beyond our 'tangible Earth'. Real science is moving from matter to mind, toward immortal consciousness, toward God.

Politicized (hence corrupt) science says whatever it needs to say in order to advance a political agenda. This is your science. It is tendentious. Honest people know it; dishonest and/or naive people accept it and use it as a tool to coerce and impose. Your use of science is small-minded at least, and is really half-minded at best.

A complete (sane) thinker has the ability to engage both halves of his brain. The two sides of a man's mind must touch for whole, satisfactory thought to occur, lest the brain of man remain cloven and double; one lobe of it repeating invariable calculations and one lobe of it dreaming impossible dreams. Man is at his best when art and science work together; when reason and religion coincide; when poetry and mathematics unite; when the tangible meets the soul. Until a certain historical event took place quite some time ago, the brain of man was separate, in an abyss of divided, warring thought. The insanity of the progressive mind seeks to re-divide the human mind so that it is forever adding up numbers that come to nothing.

Research the origins of your beloved science and you will find that it is directly linked to an institution that you mock and despise. Modern science has now separated itself from complete thought. Only when the calculating, rational half of man's mind reconnects with the romantic, soul-searching half, will science cease to be political, dangerous and destructive, and true progress will once again be possible.

If you don't respect my opinions, then why do you bother arguing with me?
Could it be because you're afraid of me?
Because I have the knowledge to tell you that what your saying is insane?

Even though this fact will be completely misinterpreted by you, there is no real difference between you people and the thoughtless fools who voted for Hitler.

Modern science has now separated itself from complete thought. Only when the calculating, rational half of man's mind reconnects with the romantic, soul-searching half, will science cease to be political, dangerous and destructive, and true progress will once again be possible.
Posted by: lvb-rocks

Don't give me Star Trek crap, it's too early in the morning.

So in the meantime, let's continue to distrust the most powerful man in the world because of our own subconscious, deep-seated racism.
If he was white you wouldn't care what he did, but the thought of a black man being in such a position of power tears you apart.

"So in the meantime, let's continue to distrust the most powerful man in the world because of our own subconscious, deep-seated racism.
If he was white you wouldn't care what he did, but the thought of a black man being in such a position of power tears you apart."

Ah, Aqua, Aqua, Aqua. You really are just another ignorant liberal troll. You rely on the standard liberal debating tactic of "If you don't think Obama's an awesome president and fully support all of his policies, then that means you're a racist who hates all black people!" Plus, you reveal what a hypocrite you are, in the sense that someone so blatantly bigoted against conservatives and people who believe in God as you are has the gall to accuse US of being bigots, even though none of us have made any racist comments.
Over the last few weeks, based on your comments, you seem to have come full circle, from ignorant bigoted jerk, to decent enough guy who simply disagrees with us, and back again to ignorant bigoted jerk.

Van Helsing says: "Obama's approval ratings are in a nose dive"

Are they really?

Here's a link to a graph of Obama's overall job approval rating from a compilation of many different polls:

Obama Job Approval

Obama's rating has been flat since mid-August. Not a very impressive "nose dive".

The election of Barack Hussein Obama is without question the most contemptible event in American history.

The reason why this statement rings true is bc no other event in the history of the U.S., outside the election of BO, has been more threatening to the existence of the U.S. as a wealthy, free democratic Constitutional Republic.

The frenetic antics of BO have given the democrats in the House under Pelosi a license to try and change the economics of this country in ways so dramatic as to bury capitalism.
That was the promise of Nikita Khrushchev, which is now happening under the dismantling watch of BO.


Most countries, other than the U.S., struggle under impoverished, totalitarian-socialist systems.

There has never been an event in American history in which its people have been so mired in ignorance of the world, its history and the essential economics of capitalism as to willfully elect a Marxist-socialist, muslim sympathizer, driven by an personal agenda to place the American system in an equal state of impoverishment, totalitarianism and socialism.

I would say that's contemptible beyond what we have seen in American history.

This blog specializes in Obama Derangement Syndrome.

Just a word about this "racism" thing.

For more than the past 40 years, this country has not made any greater national investment in anything that remotely comes close to the enormous investment made in the political, social and financial advancement of blacks in this country.

This investment has been up to and including the affirmative action election of the Marxist, BO.

It should finally be apparent that the accusation of "racism" levied toward individuals skeptical of BO is nothing more than the same cheap rhetorical threat that has consistently been used by liberals to demean, frighten and ostracize.

Ironically, this is the same old intellectually-impoverished saw that liberals have used over the decades during which time a historically-incomparable investment has been realized.

"Obama's rating has been flat since mid-August. Not a very impressive "nose dive".

Looks like a "nose dive" since Dec., since Aug. a little glide before the crash landing.

I would like to have Barack's baby.

So in the meantime, let's continue to distrust the most powerful man in the world

A shockingly stupid statement, even for you. Please explain why someone should be trusted solely because he's powerful.

Then please explain why you and your playmates distrusted Bush when he was the most powerful man in the world.

KSM will not get a fair trial. He is a victim of this nation and its imperialistic tendencies. My hope is he will be acquitted and the US government learns it's lesson. It is a vain hope.

You can't just torture and abuse innocent people because of their skin color or their religion.

You can't just torture and abuse innocent people because of their skin color or their religion.

Well, if we can't torture them on the basis of their skin color or religion, how about because they're GUILTY???

The last thing I would want is a speedy trial resulting in a guilty verdict. A long show trial comparible to the Chicago Seven trial just might doom the Democrats. I can only hope.

Somebody is on their soapbox today.Bush was the most contemptible president history. This is a time to show the world that America is civilized. Guantanamo Bay is a black eye on the country.Al Qaeda releases videos whenever they want and they have websites. So they don't need a trial to profess what they believe. This will show the US is about justice. And what happens to terrorists that attack us.

Maybe KSM is as innocent as bin Laden's driver. Based on what evidence is he guilty? Sean Hannity's? What do we really know of his 9/11 culpability? Who's a greater menace to the USA - Israel uber alles Joe Lieberman or KSM?