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Darwin keeping health care expenses down.

The liberal utopia.

Apparently it's common practice in some UK hospitals to not change and clean sheets in between patients, just flip them over. As if those germies will have the sense not to crawl through the material.

Note to self: work hard not to get ill when visiting the UK. Or, just don't visit.

"Apparently it's common practice in some UK hospitals to not change and clean sheets in between patients, just flip them over. As if those germies will have the sense not to crawl through the material."

Are you sure that flipping the sheets does not work?
I used to go out with ladies who had the crabs. I just flipped the sheets. Never caught those babies.
Maybe they just crawled upon the dogs before I went back to bed.
Seriously, when a hospital bed is no cleaner than my bed, you are in bad shape.
You Betcha, That dog gonna bite you in the ass, Darn it.
PS I was kidding about the crabs and dogs.

I don't think the people about to vote Yea on ObamaCare could care less whether the peasants have to lay on soiled mattresses. At this point, the only thing they are trying to achieve is to win. It's a given that health care will be significantly degraded; that aspect of the project was written off long ago. ObamaCare is a political project, with health care being its collateral damage.

And in the 19th century it was even worse the filthy conditions for patiants are OBAMACARE will turn us back to those days

When Obama stated that, he was going to be like Lincoln that should have been more than a clue as to what was going to happen. Lincoln did not unite the North & South but instead killed nearly a million to stage a rather large "Land Grab" of the South. He also stole the land of American Citizens for the Railroad by the use of eminent domain. Keep in mind that Abe was a Railroad Lawyer and as President, he got the railroad through.

He helped conjured up the 13th Amendment that states the Government can and will make slaves out of anyone it prosecutes. Then he came up with the 14th Amendment that tells us that the Government is OVER THE PEOPLE (All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof). Call him what you will be it "Great American" or "Communist" of "Fascist" but the fact remains that the nation has never been the same and when nearly a million dead bodies from the North & South are looking at you it is tuff to sweep them under the rug.

According to Obama who is also a barrister like Lincoln, Abe was the ultimate US President. Now go on and read the 13th Amendment and pay particular attention to who it is that can make anyone a slave now regardless of color, religion, sex or age. (Large groups of people starving due to a depression in the street could be rounded up on vagrancy charges and since that is a crime be thrown in a work camp.)

Now going to a hospital will resemble a Civil War field hospital by the looks of things. There will be a pile of boots, a pile of legs, a pile of arms and lots of blood to paint the sheets. What you are seeing is a Communist Purge in the works. Do any of you know who the bourgeois in this action, drama, thriller are? Who here recognizes what folks are playing the role of the proletariat and who is agitating them? I will give you a hint…
Bourgeois = middle class tax payers
Proletariat = any illegal alien, poverty stricken, public assistance people, working poor and the angry youth
Agitators = The Oligarchy who is OVER us thanks to the 14th Amendment and those who would slide down the slopes of democracy from a Constitutional Republic!

Alpha...you are beginning to bug me. Whether left or right, conspiracy buffs and history re-writers are not useful. Was Lincoln perfect? No. Was he the man YOU are painting? No.

Now don't go all Lib on me and start quoting chapter and verse about how you can prove with mathematical precision how...blah blah.

Please...rethink your feverish diatribes or pretty soon you'll be just as convinced that Bush / Cheney brought down the WTC. Sheesh.

By the way...good sometimes comes from bad despite itself.

If the RR's hadn't been pushed through, this country (and most likely the city you're sitting in right now) wouldn't be here in the form it is today.

Were the land-grabs wrong? Yes. Did they wind up serving a greater purpose than their robber-baron patrons had in mind? You bet.

Now stop re-writing history and worry about fixing OUR problems today.

Liberty Vs Serfdom

Posted by: Wyatt's Torch at November 28, 2009 11:56 PM

If you are bugged then go back to burying your head in the sand. The 13th Amendment gives the state the power to hold slaves and the 14th Amendment places the Federal Government over and above the PEOPLE. The facts are as follows...

1) Abe was a RAILROAD LAWYER.

2) Once elected the RAILROADS went through even private property.

3) The war between the N & S was a "Land grab" that cost almost one million lives.

4) Abe helped to allow corporations the ability to VOTE and as a direct result allowed corporations to develop America into a plutocracy of sorts.

There is more but all you need to do is research it.

As far as Left VS Right, you can play those games and count me OUT. The fact is that the only Left VS Right issues were placed in your mind through the communist school system you attended. There is no Left or Right but simply MORE & MORE government. Wake up, you are in an OLIGARCHY!

Well, now we know who and what you are. I take it back about good intentions. You're as bad (and as agenda-driven) any of the conspiracy idiots, be they 9-11 truthers or whatever.

Sir, you haven't got a clue. You read some books that spin the truth in ways that skewed your thinking, saw some faces in the clouds, put two and two together and got three and NOW say "Anyone that doesn't worship at the alter I have created is a heretic and blasphemer...so sayeth the AlphaOmega (interesting handle, by the way).

Don't lecture me on history or "do the research". According to 9-11 truthers, if I just opened my eyes and did the research I'd see that Bush and the JEWS were behind it (and why do I get the sneaking suspicion you are a Freemason/international Jewery/Bilderberger proponent?) You are coming off exactly the same...and brother, I've had it with rable rousers like you. You don't want to save the Republic, you use that as a pretense to push your "other" agenda. I wasn't born yesterday, pal. People like you have been pointing the accusing finger since the FIRST accuser said "Care for some fruit?"

You KNOW that's true.

Well, now we know who and what you are. I take it back about good intentions. You're as bad (and as agenda-driven) any of the conspiracy idiots, be they 9-11 truthers or whatever.

Sir, you haven't got a clue. You read some books that spin the truth in ways that skewed your thinking, saw some faces in the clouds, put two and two together and got three and NOW say "Anyone that doesn't worship at the alter I have created is a heretic and blasphemer...so sayeth the AlphaOmega (interesting handle, by the way).

Don't lecture me on history or "do the research". According to 9-11 truthers, if I just opened my eyes and did the research I'd see that Bush and the JEWS were behind it (and why do I get the sneaking suspicion you are a Freemason/international Jewery/Bilderberger proponent?) You are coming off exactly the same...and brother, I've had it with rable rousers like you. You don't want to save the Republic, you use that as a pretense to push your "other" agenda. I wasn't born yesterday, pal. People like you have been pointing the accusing finger since the FIRST accuser said "Care for some fruit?"

You KNOW that's true.

Posted by: Wyatt's Torch at November 29, 2009 12:39 AM

Let me ask you this comunist sympathizer...
How many people died in the Civil War?
How many people were injured in the Civil War?
How much land did the North take as a result of the Civil War?
Was Abe Lincoln a lawyer and if so what kind?
Did Abe Lincoln allow the Railroads to use Eminent Domain (government force de jure) to secure property rights from American Citizens to their respective corporations?
If the 13th Amendment frees the slaves from private holdings but permits slaves to the Government then how was SLAVERY, ABOLISHED?
What is the purpose of the 14th Amendment in the Bill of Rights and why are we considered "Subjects" and what happened to "State's Rights" if we are now all SUBJECTS of the Federal Government?

@ AlphaOmega at November 29, 2009 1:03 AM

Holding your breath for an answer? ROFLMAO

What I want is for the Federal Government to simply, "Get the ‘F’ out of my life" The republic restored would mean that all of my issues would be in my respective State of Citizenship. The Federal Government should do what it was put there to do and if not then it needs to be disbanded.

You decided to bring up 9-11! We were attacked and I lost both family and friends on that day. Therefore, you decide to lump me in with 9-11ers as part of your own propaganda campaign against me because I do not see Abe Lincoln in the same light as you. You like the fuzzy light painted by the schools and history books. You like to believe that the Federal Government got its monies worth on the Lincoln Memorial!

Okay, so I admit it...
Bush and Cheney DID create 9/11.
The Jews are behind the international banking conspiracy.
Charleton Heston is really a monkey, part ape, part chimp.
Gold standard, national debt ouitgh bngyyh! hjhkkly hjgy!!!!!!

UNGHTHJEGYUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH JEWS JEWS JEWS CHENEY BUSH LINCOLN OBAMA!!!!!!!

JEWS = GOLD!

Posted by: AlphaOmega at November 29, 2009 1:35 AM

ROFLOL No that is not me above but it was funny.

AlphaOmega:

I know your line of crap and I know it well.

Every argument you have has been destroyed. I know because my gullible father tried them all. He even thought that if he stopped putting zip codes on his mail he wouldn't have to pay taxes.

My family wasted their lives trying to extricate themselves from the government, because, in their eyes, no one was allowed to tell them what to do but God. And, surprise, surprise! They became narcissistic hedonists! Polygamy? Sure! A younger wife? Why not? An even younger wife? Even better! One that's younger still? Excellent! All this because, surprise, surprise! Nothing God "told" them to do EVER conflicted with what they wanted to do in the first place!

Yes, we have to pay taxes. No, we are not slaves.

I listened to my nitwit father for years scream about how a car license plate made him a "slave!" But when it came to actual slavery? Well, that wasn't all that bad, 'cause "black people are childlike." (Try having respect for your father when he believes evil crap like that!)

Now whenever I hear "The 13 Amendment makes us slaves," "We're under maritime law," or "OMG! There's fringe on the flag in the courtroom" I know I'm talking to a gullible fool or a conniving con man.

I listened to my nitwit father for years

Posted by: RKae at November 29, 2009 2:43 AM

One of the goals of Communism is...

THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FAMILY UNIT

Based on what you said above along with your public branding of your own flesh and blood (father) there is no doubt that in the case of your family Communism has destroyed it.

On a more important note you just broke the "Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long." commandment.

Let me ask you this Mr. "I know your line of crap and I know it well"...

How much land did the North take as a result of the Civil War?
Was Abe Lincoln a lawyer and if so what kind?
Did Abe Lincoln allow the Railroads to use Eminent Domain (government force de jure) to secure property rights from American Citizens to their respective corporations?
If the 13th Amendment frees the slaves from private holdings but permits slaves to the Government then how was SLAVERY, ABOLISHED?
What is the purpose of the 14th Amendment in the Bill of Rights and why are we considered "Subjects" and what happened to "State's Rights" if we are now all SUBJECTS of the Federal Government?

I will continue to break that commandment as my entire family turned out to be villains worse than the government they fought. I pay my taxes in part to be protected from people who believe "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." Once my parents took up that satanic dictum, they became people I needed to be protected from. And how would you expect me to honor my parents when you tell me they destroyed the family with communism?

How much land did the North take as a result of the Civil War?

It's over. Or are you saying there is still a North and a South, and one side owns land in the other? It was a war. It's over. Seriously. It's over. The Confederate States were evil. Or is slavery OK? If so, then what are you pissed about concerning the alleged slavery today?

Was Abe Lincoln a lawyer and if so what kind?

A tall one. I don't fear lawyers. Sorry. I find them very useful.

Did Abe Lincoln allow the Railroads to use Eminent Domain (government force de jure) to secure property rights from American Citizens to their respective corporations?

The railroad was the most useful thing invented up to that time. Should they have broken that many eggs for the omlette - even an omlette as yummy as that grand work of technology? Nope. Nothing in history has ever been handled properly, even the space program (which I am happy to pay taxes for!), but we are getting better at it.

If the 13th Amendment frees the slaves from private holdings but permits slaves to the Government then how was SLAVERY, ABOLISHED?

Slavery was abolished by the fact that I can't buy and sell people. (Of course, this will change once the libertarians get their precious legalization of prostitution.)

What is the purpose of the 14th Amendment in the Bill of Rights and why are we considered "Subjects" and what happened to "State's Rights" if we are now all SUBJECTS of the Federal Government?

You're subject to the jurisdiction of the government of the country and state in which you reside. How is that scary? Being "subject TO" jurisdiction does not make one "A subject." States were allowing the buying and selling of people. It was evil. It had to be stopped. I'm glad it was.

Any government hand-holding, dependent types that supports this health care reform need look no further than the nearest public housing to get some idea of the future of health care under government control.

No thank-you.

Government health care reform be damned, I'll stick with my current "horrible" health care plan.

If you are looking to the government to be your solution, then you will get exactly what you want. No Freedom, No Life, and a place where the drains on society are in charge.

The Libertarian Utopia is but a pipe dream, conversely the oligarchy, preached by the Socialist Liberals is a equal disaster.

Further I will remind you that Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness is not Carte blanche, to sit on your lazy ass, and wait for a hand out.

The Ideal representative republic, just enough law to keep the country in balance, but not enough for a dictatorship, but no mob-rule.

But the hospital in the picture looks like such a nice commie block.

"Public housing" has largely been demolished in many areas, as even the government has acknowledged its failure. Its residents have been sent forth into section 8 housing to share their criminality and neglect with the taxpaying citizens.

And this is going to be coming to America is Obummer gets his way. Conditions like the one at this hospital happen due to lack of funds, rationing, and mismanagment by the government rather than a more capitalist based competitive system taking care of it.

So government has kindly provided:

a global-warming/cap and trade scam,
a government-supported housing market crash,
an $800 bn "stimulus" cash-slush fund
and a 12-trillion-dollar looting deficit.
And mind you, this all comes on top of an average corporate tax rate of ~35% and a personal (inclusive) tax burden of ~40%.

Now we have the government trying to pull off a power coup with another (after Hillary-care fail) "Health-care" scam. (the same week-end while almost every man, woman and child in America are in a football coma)

The list could go on, but its becoming a bit stupid to believe government will do anything except that which keeps government in power.

BTW that personal tax burden is the worse one of all these government scams.

This is primarily bc citizens do not understand the degree to which the personal tax burden blocks the acquisition of personal wealth and freedom.

One consequence of the tax burden is that it correctly sends a clear signal to local, state and especially to federal governments, that when Americans are so lame and clueless, government can continue to tax and scam with impunity.

The business of government is government.

Posted by: RKae at November 29, 2009 4:05 AM

Follow along! Communism is not a government system for that the republic was converted to an oligarchy. Communism is a system used by an oligarchy, monarchy, etc. to control and dispose of those that disagree with the oligarchy. It is also a system that allows the oligarchy to assume all land rights for the greater good.

Communism has several golden goals being the elimination of private property. Methods like eminent domain are imposed in order to take one man’s property by force if necessary and give it to a business like the railroad or to build a shopping mall. The fact is that the United States Constitution is all about PROPERTY.

Communism wants to erase all borders in order to remold history, break all area specific allegiance and then ultimately go global. This is more destructive than poison since it is about centralized power and ending State's Rights.

The ultimate prize for the Communists is the destruction of the family unit. With this goal well under way, it will be impossible for militia to form against any tyrannical forces. A vast network of snitches like you will swell and faith will be replaced by an angry mob...

Finally the groups created by the Communist Oligarchy will war and at no cost to the oligarchy. They will watch as the fun develops and at a time of their choosing they will most likely apply a Socialist Method to end the unrest. Armed forces will use force.

Now, communism by the sound of it has destroyed YOU since you are the one publically hanging your dear old dad out to dry. Communists do not like God and so they cannot break Ten Commandments that they do not believe in otherwise you would not be publically calling dad a nitwit.

As far as how much should you honor your parents: You can't because you have communist values to the core. Here are 45 communist goals (many in addition to the ones in the Communist Manifesto)...

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

So government has kindly provided:

a global-warming/cap and trade scam,
a government-supported housing market crash,
an $800 bn "stimulus" cash-slush fund
and a 12-trillion-dollar looting deficit.
And mind you, this all comes on top of an average corporate tax rate of ~35% and a personal (inclusive) tax burden of ~40%.

Now we have the government trying to pull off a power coup with another (after Hillary-care fail) "Health-care" scam. (the same week-end while almost every man, woman and child in America are in a football coma)

The list could go on, but its becoming a bit stupid to believe government will do anything except that which keeps government in power.

Posted by: Fiberal at November 29, 2009 9:24 AM

Correct since it is no longer "Our Government" they have matured into an oligarchy and this quote sums it up in a bow...

“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” - Hermann Goering

You know folks AlphaOmega is right.
He may not be eloquent but he is right.
It is time to take the founding fathers works, put them in a nice safe spot, burn the rest to the ground and start over where they were in 1776.
The only amendments worth anything are the first ten.

"AlphaOmega at November 28, 2009 11:23 PM"

Lincoln had nothing to do with the "14th ammendment", although he did outline the "reconstruction" in 1862.
Lincoln WAS the origonator of America's "chain of command" type of government.
Over 600,000 men, women and children were killed or died as a result of the war. Many sources cite only 300,000+ because they use northern military rolls and don't count civilians.

(a) I didn't answer Mr. Alpha because I went to bed. I don't sit up all night in feverish anticipation of his bullshit.

(b) Alpha, you are a punk. I want less government, I'm not a commie, I'm a conservative. YOU on the otherhand are a conspiracy freak.

(c) Free, don't fall for his crap. He has an agenda, and it isn't liberty or The Republic. Trust me on that.

As for Lincoln, if you want a perfect human, I guess you'll have to look at someone like Alpha...the rest of us (including Lincoln) are flawed.

Read the book THE GOOD OLD DAYS THEY WERE TERRIBLE by OTTO BETMAN

Posted by: KHarn at November 29, 2009 10:56 AM
You are putting words in my mouth when you say, "Lincoln had nothing to do with the "14th (SIC)ammendment", although he did outline the "reconstruction" in 1862."

What I asked several times and what has not been addressed was this question, "What is the purpose of the 14th Amendment in the Bill of Rights and why are we considered Subjects?" Then in addition, I asked, "What happened to State's Rights if we are now all SUBJECTS of the Federal Government?"

In 1862 President Lincoln appointed Andrew Johnson as military governor of Tennessee so to suggest that Lincoln who was the President had nothing to do with the 13th and or 14th Amendments is along with being silly, utter nonsense.

Lincoln is the only United States President to conduct military operations against the southern states after besieging those same states with high tariffs and taxes that were at the root of the Civil War. The fact is that RESOURCES are the actual cause of all wars (land grabs) while any excuses can be given to beat the drums of war.

“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” - Hermann Goering

The South will rise again, right Alpha? How's that campaign to resurrect Jeff Davis going?

Your gonna have a lot of trouble with black people, though. I'm not sure they'll willingly go back to the plantation...even though you probably suffered great economic hardship when they left.

Trust me on that.

Posted by: Wyatt's Torch at November 29, 2009 12:01 PM

Spoken like a used car salesmen! Germany trusted a paperhanger. The Russians trusted Stalin. The Italians trusted Mussolini and so on. Thanks but I will give you a miss on that offer.

The South will rise again, right Alpha? How's that campaign to resurrect Jeff Davis going?

Your gonna have a lot of trouble with black people, though. I'm not sure they'll willingly go back to the plantation...even though you probably suffered great economic hardship when they left.

Posted by: Wyatt's Torch at November 29, 2009 12:27 PM

Wyatt the propagandist speaks with forked tongue again! Black or white or other we are all merely birds in a golden cage, prisoners in a velvet-covered cell are still prisoners but when you remove the velvet the illusion of Liberty fades fast.

Keep talking, Alpha. You're making my case for me. The U.S. is part of a vast conspiracy. Lincoln was a shill for the Illuminati. The Constitution is a Freemason document. CONSPIRACY! SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS!

You and J.W. Booth would have a lot to talk over.

You are amazing.

You know folks AlphaOmega is right.
He may not be eloquent but he is right.
It is time to take the founding fathers works, put them in a nice safe spot, burn the rest to the ground and start over where they were in 1776.
The only amendments worth anything are the first ten.

Posted by: FREE at November 29, 2009 10:42 AM

I'm simply pointing out that we have little choice.

Pick slavery or pick liberty...

If you pick liberty than here is what is available...

1) Protest (1st Amendment)

2) Take up arms (2nd Amendment)

3) Fight (DofI)

Then live or die.

We already did the election and went along with the situation. Now we are deep in a depression and I know people that want to quit the USA. The oligarchy in control has no intention to relent and frankly looks as though it has joined a Global Communist Government.

I listed a possible "Tax Strike" but odds are that not enough will participate (who can blame them) since the price will be your property. Heck, your property is not your property at all! The government will use Title 18 and take all of your stuff if you fail to pay even though you might be broke.

This places the Government over and above the people and that directly contradicts the Constitution. Your property is your property but thanks to people like Lincoln, property rights are gone.

So again, the question is what can someone do in the face of tyranny?

1) Protest (1st Amendment)

2) Take up arms (2nd Amendment)

3) Fight (DofI)

Then live or die.

The only option we have is to work the Bill of Rights and then if all else fails God gave us guns for a reason. Of course, first thing we need to do is PROTEST! If the public is overwhelmingly against the health bill or cap and trade as it is, why doesn’t Congress hear us? The government no longer fears the people and the people now fear the government. What would put fear in them better than massive protests?
If your business is loaded with robbers, the best fix is to clear house! That is what the whole “Tree of Liberty” quote is about!

You are amazing.

Posted by: Wyatt's Torch at November 29, 2009 1:55 PM

The first thing you ever got right Wyatt. I am amazing!

According to the United States Constitution who works for who?

You know Alpha, you should start a website like this: http://maddox.xmission.com/

You and Maddox share a similar self-esteem issue. But you ARE amazing, so we agree on that!

...and besides when will ENOUGH be ENOUGH?

TRUTH, what a concept. We demand the truth from the so-called scientists about the GLOWbull warming thing but because the truth about the past tastes bad (the prez shilling for the RR's) we act like liberano's?

Oh the SHAME.

You know Alpha, you should start a website like this: http://maddox.xmission.com/

You and Maddox share a similar self-esteem issue. But you ARE amazing, so we agree on that!

Posted by: Wyatt's Torch at November 29, 2009 2:33 PM
It appears that you are simply a troll and between the constant ad hominem, propaganda and assorted put downs it is my contention that your IP should be banned! I will send this to the administrator as well!

Can't take it, huh Alpha?

May I suggest that YOU take your Lincoln-hating, America-as-evil self and go back to whatever conspiracy site you came from and pat yourself on the back for being so clever.

(Note: Hey Van...he wants to ban me! When the argument is lost, try to silence the opposition. Now where have we heard THAT before?)

Posted by: Wyatt's Torch at November 29, 2009 3:08 PM

Your posts espouse nothing but contempt, ad hominem, propaganda and assorted BS. You are trolling me and have had more than enough time and space to refute any of my documented claims. While you believe that Lincoln was the tits of the 1800's I believe that his claims to fame have been exaggerated and distorted. It is enough to say that you and I disagree but you have now decided to troll (thread stalker) and so like any stalker your IP should be banned. I don't know what Van will do but that is not up to me?

Troll my ass. I see B.S. and I call it. That's it. Go ahead get me banned for dismissing you. Everyone here sees you for what you and your agenda are. You expect serious refutation of your ranting? Waste of time.

As for ad hominem name calling, you called me a commie among other things...but I don't want YOU banned. You make my point for me by your mere presence.

I've run into guys like you all my life. You hate a true conservative because they can see through your propaganda. Your insane web of "facts" doesn't impress or confuse us, so you turn to anger.

You are now dismissed.

Troll my ass. I see B.S. and I call it. That's it. Go ahead get me banned for dismissing you. Everyone here sees you for what you and your agenda are. You expect serious refutation of your ranting? Waste of time.

As for ad hominem name calling, you called me a commie among other things...but I don't want YOU banned. You make my point for me by your mere presence.

I've run into guys like you all my life. You hate a true conservative because they can see through your propaganda. Your insane web of "facts" doesn't impress or confuse us, so you turn to anger.

You are now dismissed.

Posted by: Wyatt's Torch at November 29, 2009 3:37 PM

You say...
"Troll my ass."

& then you say...
"You make my point for me by your mere presence."

Proof positive that you are a commie troll! Communists are the first ones to stand up and as you say...
"I see B.S. and I call it."

The main issue being that you are the BS person that can't refute claims, participate in civil discourse, uses profanity and constant ad hominem. All along, you intended to derail the thread and now I am not sure I remember what it is about thanks to you.

Is it your contention that this quote is fictitious or dishonest????...
"Keeping the equilibrium became harder as the country grew, and the conflict began. The North soon attained power over every department of Government. There were thirteen Northern states and twelve Southern (considering Delaware as neutral), making a difference of two senators in favor of the North. In the House of Representatives, the North had 135 members and the South 87. So, in all questions pertaining to the diversity of interests between the North and South, the South’s interests were sacrificed to those of the North. Through the adopted system of revenue and disbursements, an undue portion of the burden of taxation was imposed upon the South and an undue portion of its proceeds appropriated by the North. The North demanded a high tariff, “so as to monopolize the domestic markets, especially the Southern market, for the South, being Agragarian, must purchase all manufactured goods,” says southern historian Frank Owsley . The South fought the institution of the tariff, and almost seceded because of it. The resulting effect of the tariff was to transfer a vast amount of wealth from South to North. Under an equal system of revenue and disbursements, this would not have happened. Because there was so little restraint to prevent the Government from doing whatever it wanted, a small group of Northern abolitionists saw this as their chance to agitate for freeing the slaves." - Ria Living in St. Louis, MO

Your schpiel is becoming burdensome.

Read Mark Levin's Liberty and Tyranny, then get back to me.

(They get so MAD when you won't play their game, don't they!)

Your schpiel is becoming burdensome.

Read Mark Levin's Liberty and Tyranny, then get back to me.

(They get so MAD when you won't play their game, don't they!)

Posted by: Wyatt's Torch at November 29, 2009 4:15 PM

Here Van this is another example of the trolling by Wyatt. Like he said he is "Playing A Game"

"When he became president legislation was immediately proposed, in a special legislative session called by Lincoln in July of 1861, to create the taxpayer-subsidized Union Pacific Railroad. "There was no firmer friend of the Union Pacific bill than the President himself," writes Starr. (In contrast, most mainstream "Lincoln scholars" make the preposterous assertion that he had nothing to do with such legislation). The bill was passed in 1862 and it gave the president the power to appoint all the directors and commissioners and, more importantly, "to fix the point of commencement" of the Union Pacific Railroad. And guess where Lincoln chose to fix the point of commencement of the railroad. He "fixed the eastern terminus of the Union Pacific Railroad . . . at Council Bluffs, Iowa" (p. 202). His financial gains must have dwarfed Corning’s $10,000 salary offer. During the Grant administrations dozens of prominent people would go to federal prison for such criminal self-dealing but Lincoln, the ringleader of the whole enterprise, has up to now escaped scrutiny.

In addition to lining his own pockets with this piece of legislation, proving to his well-heeled supporters that he was indeed "one of them," the legislation was essentially the Mother of all Political Payoffs. One hundred fifty-eight of the prominent Northern bankers, industrialists, and railroad barons who had supported Lincoln’s political career were appointed as "commissioners." As Dee Brown wrote in Hear that Lonesome Whistle Blow: The Epic Story of the Transcontinental Railroads, when Lincoln signed the bill creating the Union Pacific he "assured the fortunes of a dynasty of American families . . . Brewsters, Bushnells, Olcotts, Harkers, Harrisons, Trowbridges, Langworthys, Reids, Ogdens, Bradfords, Noyeses, Brooks, Cornells, and dozens of others . . ." (p. 49).

What does all this have to do with Lincoln’s war "to save the union"? The answer is, "everything." The official reason for the war that was given by both Lincoln and the U.S. Congress was "to save the union." But Lincoln inherited no "perpetual union." The union of the founding fathers was a voluntary compact of the states. The states delegated certain powers to the central government as their agent, but retained sovereignty for themselves. Secession was considered a legitimate option by political and opinion leaders from all sections of the country in 1860, as I document quite extensively in The Real Lincoln.

In his First Inaugural Address Lincoln promised that he had no intention of disturbing Southern slavery, and that even if he did it would be unconstitutional to do so. In the same speech he pledged his support of a proposed constitutional amendment that had just passed the U.S. Senate two days earlier (after passing the House of Representatives) that would have forbidden the federal government from ever interfering with Southern slavery. In other words, he was perfectly willing to see Southern slavery persist long after his own lifetime.

But on the issue of taxation he was totally uncompromising. The Republican Party was about to more than double the average tariff rate (from 15 percent to over 32 percent), and then increase it again to 47 percent. The Morrill Tariff passed the House of Representatives in the 1859 session, before Lincoln’s nomination and before any serious movement toward secession. In the First Inaugural Lincoln clearly stated that it was his obligation as president to "collect the duties and imposts," but beyond that "there will be no invasion of any state." He was telling the South: "We are going to economically plunder you by doubling and tripling the tariff rate (the main source of federal revenue at the time), and if you refuse to collect the higher tariffs, as the South Carolinians did with the 1828 "Tariff of Abominations," there will be an invasion. That is, there will be mass killing, mayhem, and total war.

Why was the tariff so important – even more important than the issue of slavery in the eyes of Abraham Lincoln? Because tariff revenues comprised about 90 percent of federal revenue, and if the Southern states seceded they would no longer pay the federal tariff. All the grandiose plans of building a transcontinental railroad with taxpayer subsidies and creating a continental empire would be destroyed, and along with them the political career of Abraham Lincoln and, possibly, the Republican Party itself. The union was "saved" geographically but destroyed philosophically by the waging of total war on the civilian population of the South, a war in which nearly one half of the adult white male population was either killed or mutilated." -- passage from Thomas J. DiLorenzo's The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War

Actually, I said I WON'T play YOUR game.

Funny how EVERYONE from Ogden Nash onwards was in on the conspiracy to hide Abe's agenda, and it took Alphie and that noted scholar Thomas J. DiLorenzo (who JUST HAPPENS to be a member of the League of the South. Look THAT org up some time) to set us straight.

Alphie, dude...YOU'RE OUTED.

As to your man DiLorenzo: he has authored at least ten books, including

The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War, Hamilton's Curse: How Jefferson's Arch Enemy Betrayed the American Revolution--and What It Means for Americans Today and Lincoln Unmasked: What You're Not Supposed To Know about Dishonest Abe.

DiLorenzo has spoken out in favor of the secession of the Confederate States of America, defending its right to secede in a view similar to that of abolitionist Lysander Spooner.

'Nuff said.

Back to the topic ladies and gents. I see this dirty hospital perfect for lefty troll. They want social medicine then they can have it.

Posted by: Wyatt's Torch at November 29, 2009 6:22 PM

The author said...
"In his First Inaugural Address Lincoln promised that he had no intention of disturbing Southern slavery, and that even if he did it would be unconstitutional to do so. In the same speech he pledged his support of a proposed constitutional amendment that had just passed the U.S. Senate two days earlier (after passing the House of Representatives) that would have forbidden the federal government from ever interfering with Southern slavery. In other words, he was perfectly willing to see Southern slavery persist long after his own lifetime."

Lincoln stated during his...

Abraham Lincoln
First Inaugural Address
Monday, March 4, 1861

that...

"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."

he also said...

"No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall in consequence of any law or regulation therein be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."

I fail to see any evidence that DiLorenzo made any of this up, embellished in any way any part of it and provided sources to all of his assertions.

The author said...

"But on the issue of taxation he was totally uncompromising. The Republican Party was about to more than double the average tariff rate (from 15 percent to over 32 percent), and then increase it again to 47 percent. The Morrill Tariff passed the House of Representatives in the 1859 session, before Lincoln’s nomination and before any serious movement toward secession. In the First Inaugural Lincoln clearly stated that it was his obligation as president to "collect the duties and imposts," but beyond that "there will be no invasion of any state." He was telling the South: "We are going to economically plunder you by doubling and tripling the tariff rate (the main source of federal revenue at the time), and if you refuse to collect the higher tariffs, as the South Carolinians did with the 1828 "Tariff of Abominations," there will be an invasion. That is, there will be mass killing, mayhem, and total war."

Therefore, back in reality everything he wrote checks out as he provided sources and all of this is easy to locate on the internet and in various books.

Your basic problem is that Abe Lincoln is simply another corrupt lawyer turned politician turned President who you want to attribute all things great and wonderful.

Amen, Dave. I nearly forgot what this thread started out with! Socialized medicine...ain't it pretty? So next time someone emails you and spouts off about the U.S. being ranked umpteenth lowest in the world in terms of quality care health care, keep this article in mind!

As to Alphie, he just takes up a lot of space, but it's OK. He's been outed as a Confederate State secessionist. Yawn.

Even though I am a veteran, I've not seen the inside of a (Govt)V.A. Hospital and have no desire to from what I've heard.

Have you?

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