moonbattery.gif


« Anita Dunn: Hates Fox, Loves Mao | Main | Separated at Birth? »


October 15, 2009

Kenyan on the Rise

Posted by Van Helsing at October 15, 2009 7:58 PM

Okay, this African publication doesn't even spell his name right. But the headline is still interesting:

obama-kenyan-born.jpg

This probably isn't why Chairman Zero is willing to spend a fortune on legal bills rather than let us see his birth certificate, but by now you would think even the pathologically incurious liberal media would have some questions.

On tips from Wiggins, V the K, and Charlie G.


Comments

Humm Humm Humm, Barak was born in Kenya. This is worth looking into. Alot of the guys i respect (O'Reilly, Beck) say that he was born in Hawaii but then whats this all about?

Posted by: Dante at October 15, 2009 8:07 PM


Obviously a fake.. some how the evil racist republican smear campaign went back in time some how and planted incriminating evidence.

P.S thee Jeri "assimilate this!" Ryan?

Posted by: jobafett at October 15, 2009 8:14 PM


It doesn't matter anymore, he could be from from Congo and his real BC found and printed all over the place. The Liberal establishment already made sure anyone questionning it would be tarred as both a racist and a "Birther". I'm so disgusted of politics...

Posted by: Jay B. at October 15, 2009 8:15 PM


To a sloppy fact checker, a Kenyan (heritage) can easily be described as Kenyan-born. Linguistically, in English, the modifier "-born" is typically assumed, especially for countries without large influxes of immigrants.

Simple error explains this, assuming some writer didn't just deliberately put it in there to make the story more interesting to their Kenyan readership.

Posted by: Anonymous Countermoonbat at October 15, 2009 8:16 PM


another point possible deny ability... this article is NOT about our Barry. Its about some other Kenyan born politician named BarRack.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 15, 2009 8:17 PM


ditto with Jay B

Posted by: jobafett at October 15, 2009 8:20 PM


Once, on a drive through South Dakota, I passed two signs proclaiming different cities to be the hometown of some or another senator. Many people think Lincoln's hometown was Springfield, IL. Claiming to the the birthplace of a leader is a common spurious assertion.

Posted by: hey you guys at October 15, 2009 9:08 PM


But in this case, the suspicions appear to be correct. This paper looks mighty damning and the story is definitely worth looking into, on the off-chance that this particular "leader" really wasn't born in the USA.

Posted by: hey you guys at October 15, 2009 9:29 PM


Maybe that's what See-Thru spent millions to keep private! The real spelling of his name!

Posted by: Elektra at October 15, 2009 10:55 PM


Look, I don't trust anything without verification any more, but HYG, are you KIDDING? If this is authentic, Obama was no leader when it was published, he was a senatorial HOPEFUL. Hardly worth claiming someone who hasn't even won a major election yet.

Posted by: Judith M. at October 16, 2009 1:53 AM


Given a choice, I'd still rather see his college records than his birth certificate.

Of course, at this point, even if it came out that Obama was a serial nun rapist and child murderer, it would make no difference to his slobbering cult of followers.

Posted by: V the K at October 16, 2009 5:27 AM


Im quite sure his birth certificate wouldnt have Kenya on it any more than a newborn being carried across the border my its Mexican mother would have Mexico listed as country of birth. The only way it could be proven that Obama wasnt born here was to establish his mothers location in the days or weeks prior to his birth was somewhere outside the U.S. So the certificate itself wouldnt mean much, it could have been "created" on Day 1. Unless the hospital, doctors and nurses that delivered BO were named and questioned and say yeah, heres all the paperwork from back then, the bill, insurance info, ect. Im sure BOs daddy could hook that up with some dudes in the hood. They make very good licenses and back then they didnt have security features like now.

In the end it doesnt matter to the "powers that be" whether he was born in the US, Kenya or on Mars.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 16, 2009 5:53 AM


The question about the birth certificate is a Constitutional one: we either are a Constitutional Republic or we aren't.

If we are, we need to act like one and not pick and choose factors to which we arbitrarily subordinate the Constitution.

BO's birth certificate (he hides) vs certificate of birth (he shows) brings into light a Constitutional question. Namely, what exactly is the standard threshold for proof of citizenship under which a candidate is legally obligated to meet? The birth certificate is a higher threshold than a certificate of birth and if it is indeed available it should be used to establish citizenship and then as part of the historical record.
There is no justification for using a lower standard bc there is no theoretical bottom.

The issue of the birth certificate is not the obsession of kooks; rather, it raises the critical question of just how a presidential candidate's citizenship qualifications should be evaluated.

In the case of BO, we've about hit that theoretical bottom.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 16, 2009 7:53 AM


Oops....that was me

Posted by: Fiberal at October 16, 2009 7:54 AM


There's no question in my mind that every candidate running for POTUS in this country should be required to provide the long form birth certificate as evidence of being a natural born citizen. McCain did, why shouldn't Obama have to?

Posted by: Judith M. at October 16, 2009 8:12 AM


First, if Obama had been born in Kenya there would at least be a Kenyan document showing that his mother arrived in Kenya in 1961. No such document has been found, and the explanation that the Kenyan government has sealed the files is weak, since if the Kenyan government had sealed any files it would have been reported by respected news agencies (NOT WND).

Second, if Obama had been born in Kenya, he would have needed a US travel document to get to the USA, such as a US visa on a British passport or a change to his mother's passport to include him, and that would have had to have been issued in Kenya. Either of those documents would still be on file at the US State Department, if they existed, and they would have been found, if they existed. But no such document has turned up.

Third, it is absurd to believe that Obama's mother traveled from Hawaii to Kenya while she was pregnant. Pregnant women rarely traveled long distances in 1961 because of fear of miscarriages, and there were no direct flights in those days, so she would have had to have made four or five stops along the way to Kenya and back, on poorly pressurized planes, and with long-distance airline tickets costing relatively more (compared to average earnings) in those days than now.

Fourth, Obama's Kenyan grandmother never said that Obama was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii. This can be clearly heard if you listen to the complete recording of the tape, which is on Berg’s site. The complete recording includes a question asking “Whereabouts was he born?” And her answer was: “America, Hawaii.”

Here is the complete recording on Berg’s site. Be sure to listen for at least five minutes until the question is asked. (http://obamacrimes.com/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-08.mp3)

If it is too difficult to listen to the complete tape, here is a transcript (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obamatranscriptlulu109.pdf).

Fifth, all the allegations of Obama’s birth abroad were checked out by the McCain campaign, and they found that there were no facts. No facts at all. (http://washingtonindependent.com/52474/mccain-campaign-investigated-dismissed-obama-citizenship-rumors)

Sixth, the notices in the Hawaiian newspapers (two newspapers) were sent out by the government of Hawaii for births in Hawaii, and not for births outside of Hawaii. Seventh, the notices confirm the official birth certificate of Hawaii, which says that Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961 (which was before Hawaii allowed foreign births to be registered in Hawaii). The facts on the official birth certificate have been confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii. And finally, there is even a witness who recalls being told of Obama's birth in Hawaii (because she wrote about the birth to a woman named Stanley to her father, also named Stanley) (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html).

Posted by: smrstrauss at October 16, 2009 9:10 AM


It dosn't matter so much if Obama was born in Hawaii or Kenya. He was elected President and proving he's not a natural born citizen and therefore not eligible for the Presidency is not the point, The Point is: "IF" he was born in Africa and intentionally covered it up makes him a liar. that blemish on ones character is enough to question the legitimacy of 'whatever' office or position they hold.

Posted by: jobafett at October 16, 2009 9:16 AM


Re: "McCain did, why shouldn't Obama have to?"

Actually, McCain did NOT. The copy of a "Panama Canal Zone birth certificate" that is circulating on the Web is apparently a forgery. McCain said that he was born at the base hospital at the US Naval Base. The "birth certificate" that is circulating says that he was born at Colon Hospital (which is outside the Canal Zone).

No president before Obama has posted or showed anyone his birth certificate. Obama did. He showed the official birth certificate of Hawaii. Yes, it is a short-form birth certificate, but many states have now adopted short-form certificates as their official birth certificate, and it is the ONLY birth document that Hawaii currently sends out (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html)

The Wall Street Journal concluded: "
Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.

The release of the obsolete birth certificate would not “resolve the issue” to those for whom it is not already resolved. They claim without basis that today’s birth certificate is a fake; there is nothing to stop them from claiming without basis that yesterday’s is as well."

Posted by: smrstrauss at October 16, 2009 9:17 AM


smrstrauss, you're missing a couple of very important pieces of information. McCain's mother is still alive and she attests that McCain's was born in the Panama Canal Zone. But even at that Congress had to pass a resolution that John McCain was a natural born citizen.

Second, the person in charge of birth records in Hawaii has publicly verified that the long form birth certificate exists. If it exists, no Hawaiin regulations should supercede the burden of evidence for showing that a person was a natural born citizen. Obama should authorize the release of the form and put an end to the lawsuits once and for all.

Posted by: Judith M. at October 16, 2009 9:33 AM


I forgot to add, there's also the legal issue of Obama's father not being a US citizen at his birth (or ever). Whether a person being born under this circumstance could be a natural born citizen is apparently an unresolved legal issue. Frankly it's disgusting that these things were not properly handled before Obama was certified. With any luck they will pass a law requiring all candidates for the presidency to produce a long form birth certificate before the next presidential election so this issue never comes up again.

Posted by: Judith M. at October 16, 2009 9:38 AM


"Obama should authorize the release of the form and put an end to the lawsuits once and for all."

unfortunately this won't happen because every time a rock is kicked over all the cockroaches scurry out, and with the help of ACORN even roaches can vote.

Posted by: jobafett at October 16, 2009 9:42 AM


Figures that the paid trolls would be out after the birth thing.

Everything that smrstrauss dutifully recites as evidence of BO's American birth is circumstantial and meets a lower threshold of criteria than should be allowed. That is what I pointed out in my previous post.
For example,smrstrauss retrieves from his files the argument:


Sixth, the notices in the Hawaiian newspapers (two newspapers) were sent out by the government of Hawaii for births in Hawaii, and not for births outside of Hawaii.

Here we see a good example of the theoretical bottom.

The suggestion is that newspaper clippings of whatever origin should be used as a substitute for an extant birth certificate. Why should we settle for that? There are dozens of reasons why America should not become seduced into thinking that a newspaper can supply primary data/evidence that should either substitute for, or displace, better evidence (if it exists). The standard should be the highest possible one that can be met by someone presuming to hold the office of the most powerful country in the world (i.e., pre-BO).

So what's next? The mother's word? How bout a neighbor's testimony that the birth occurred in their home town? How bout just finding a "man-on-the-street" to bear witness? Or a liberal?

In other words, there is no theoretical bottom.

This is a Constitutional issue that needs to be addressed. Just one of the many issues that BO will leave in his wake for America to clean up in later years.

Posted by: Fiberal at October 16, 2009 11:50 AM


обоснованно то что надо! А то сколько не лазишь по нету сплошное бла бла бла. Но не тут, и это радует!

Posted by: Saderinka at October 16, 2009 1:40 PM


smrstrauss, these obscure documents that you say have not been found perhaps have not been found because no one can find them. O went to Kenya, oh when was it, some time before or early in his running - it's possible he made them unavailable. It's also true that the press who would have the resources to dig stuff up is supremely uninterested, so to say that no documents have been found is not a defense if no documents are looked for nor available to be found. And if they are found to be not available that would lead one to believe that shenanigans were afoot like the Nixon tape.

Posted by: Jayne at October 16, 2009 9:27 PM


Interesting all the comments from Russia...I wonder why they give a rat's about Obama's citizenship status? Oh wait, I get it, they LOVE Obama because he's such a pushover and he's is quickly making the USA irrelevant, which, they think, will leave the door open for Russia to fill the power void!

I'll bet the KGB knows what is on Obama's long form...

Posted by: Judith M. at October 17, 2009 4:56 AM


Что такое - ваш интерес в этой истории?

Posted by: Judith M. at October 17, 2009 10:02 AM


This is fascinating. Appearing and disappearing Russian posts. Van Helsing, what is going on here?

Posted by: Judith M. at October 17, 2009 10:26 AM


Sorry Judith. I deleted the spam before I realized a real person had responded to it.

Posted by: Van Helsing at October 17, 2009 10:29 AM


I don't think that was spam, Van Helsing. From what I could tell, the different commenters were having a discussion regarding whether there was anything to this story and their opinions were mixed.

Posted by: Judith M. at October 17, 2009 12:08 PM


Re: 'Second, the person in charge of birth records in Hawaii has publicly verified that the long form birth certificate exists."

Indeed yes, she does. In fact two officials do. The COLB is the legal document summarizing the original birth certificate. It is the official birth certificate of Hawaii now. It is the only birth certificate that Hawaii sends out, and it is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the US Military. Thousands, if not tens of thousands of people who were born in Hawaii were issued US passports based on the COLB.

In the so-called "birther bill," which is sponsored in Congress by a few conservative Republicans who want proof of the president's eligiblity in the next presidential election, the bill calls for the official birth certificate, not the original birth certificate.

The fact that Obama does not show the original birth certificate is due to two things (1) the OFFICIAL birth certificate is legally sufficient, and the confirmation that Obama was born in Hawaii by the two officials makes the fact of birth in Hawaii overwhelming; (2) Obama does not have the original birth certificate. He has the COLB, which is what Hawaii sent him.

If you would like to see the original, ask the Governor of Hawaii to change the law to make Obama's birth documents public records so anyone can see them. This would clear up the issue of the birth certificate.

It will have absolutely no impact on the fact that Obama was not born in Kenya. There is no evidence that Obama's mother ever went to Kenya, and no legal or documentary evidence that Obama was born in Kenya, and no evidence that Obama had any kind of US travel document to travel from Kenya to the USA. There's not even any confirmation of the WND allegation that the Kenya government sealed files in Kenya (or that there were any files to seal). The Kenyan grandmother did not say Obama was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii.

Getting back to the Hawaii birth certificate. This is what the Wall Street Journal said about it: "Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.

The release of the obsolete birth certificate would not “resolve the issue” to those for whom it is not already resolved. They claim without basis that today’s birth certificate is a fake; there is nothing to stop them from claiming without basis that yesterday’s is as well."

Posted by: Anonymous at October 17, 2009 5:47 PM


Re: 'Second, the person in charge of birth records in Hawaii has publicly verified that the long form birth certificate exists."

Indeed yes, she does. In fact two officials do. The COLB is the legal document summarizing the original birth certificate. It is the official birth certificate of Hawaii now. It is the only birth certificate that Hawaii sends out, and it is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the US Military. Thousands, if not tens of thousands of people who were born in Hawaii were issued US passports based on the COLB.

In the so-called "birther bill," which is sponsored in Congress by a few conservative Republicans who want proof of the president's eligiblity in the next presidential election, the bill calls for the official birth certificate, not the original birth certificate.

The fact that Obama does not show the original birth certificate is due to two things (1) the OFFICIAL birth certificate is legally sufficient, and the confirmation that Obama was born in Hawaii by the two officials makes the fact of birth in Hawaii overwhelming; (2) Obama does not have the original birth certificate. He has the COLB, which is what Hawaii sent him.

If you would like to see the original, ask the Governor of Hawaii to change the law to make Obama's birth documents public records so anyone can see them. This would clear up the issue of the birth certificate.

It will have absolutely no impact on the fact that Obama was not born in Kenya. There is no evidence that Obama's mother ever went to Kenya, and no legal or documentary evidence that Obama was born in Kenya, and no evidence that Obama had any kind of US travel document to travel from Kenya to the USA. There's not even any confirmation of the WND allegation that the Kenya government sealed files in Kenya (or that there were any files to seal). The Kenyan grandmother did not say Obama was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii.

Getting back to the Hawaii birth certificate. This is what the Wall Street Journal said about it: "Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.

The release of the obsolete birth certificate would not “resolve the issue” to those for whom it is not already resolved. They claim without basis that today’s birth certificate is a fake; there is nothing to stop them from claiming without basis that yesterday’s is as well."

Posted by: smrstrauss at October 17, 2009 5:50 PM


Re: "McCain's mother is still alive and she attests that McCain's was born in the Panama Canal Zone."

Yes she did (though I haven't actually seen her do it, but let's say that she did). Would you accept the same thing from Obama's mother?

These are two partial witnesses. What is wrong with the evidence of two impartial witnesses, both of whom are government officials in Hawaii in a Republican administration, and both of whom said that they saw documentary evidence proving that Obama was born in Hawaii? That is what they say. (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html)

Moreover, there isn't a shred of evidence that Obama was born in Kenya or that Obama's mother ever went to Kenya, much less that she went to Kenya when she was pregnant and Yellow Fever was endemic in Kenya in 1961.

Posted by: smrstrauss at October 17, 2009 6:08 PM


There was a full blown congressional investigation on McCain's birth status, smrstrauss. Why do you think they passed a resolution confirming that he was a natural born citizen? A resolution that Obama voted in favor of, I might add.

The treatment of McCain vs. Obama in this regard is so dissimilar as to raise some real questions of equal treatment under the law. There is far more reason to question Obama's natural born status given his father was never a US citizen, and McCain's father was a natural born citizen and an officer in the US military.

And the officials in Hawaii telling us what's on the long form is laughable. If the issue is privacy, they broke the law when they did that. Sure, Obama would never prosecute them for that because he wants us all to believe without seeing. Sorry, but I don't trust him that much, and the short form simply doesn't have all the information we need to make a clear determination since you could register foreign births in Hawaii at the time of his birth.

Obama has claimed to have been born in two different hospitals in Hawaii. Now I know he's considered a demigod by many on the left, but even he couldn't pull off that sort of feat. I think it's absolutely perverse that no one even knows the exact location of his birth because of all the lies he's told. His long form would state the hospital he was born in, that should at least be worth something from an historical standpoint.

Posted by: Judith M. at October 18, 2009 6:21 AM


Re: "There was a full blown congressional investigation on McCain's birth status, smrstrauss. Why do you think they passed a resolution confirming that he was a natural born citizen? A resolution that Obama voted in favor of, I might add."

A resolution by one house of the US Congress is not even a law, much less a change to the Constitution. As for it being "full-fledged," do you recall any senator saying "I saw John McCain's birth certificate?" The hearings were only on the constitutional issue of whether a person born on a US military base with two US parents was a US citizen. The senators accepted McCain's word (and his mother's word) that he was born on the military base.

However, how could it be full-fledged when the Washington Post reported: "Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the "Child Born Abroad" records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/01/AR2008050103224_2.html

There is a "birth certificate" for John McCain online. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/11110505/JohnMcCain-Birth-Certificate-long-and-short-form-Colon-Panama-1936) But that is apparently a forgery because McCain said that he was born at the family hospital on the Naval Base, and this refers to the Colon Hospital. One thing is for sure, it was not put on line by McCain or by McCain's campaign. No birth certificate was put online by McCain. No president before Obama ever posted a birth certificate or showed one to anyone.

In contrast, Obama did put his official birth certificate online, and delivered physical copies of it to BOTH Polifact and FactCheck, and the facts on it were confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii, and there is not a shred of evidence that he was born in Kenya or anywhere other than Hawaii.

Re: "Obama has claimed to have been born in two different hospitals in Hawaii."

No he didn't. He always said Kapolani. One newsagency quoted his sister as saying Queens, but that was wrong. She did not say it, and it is not true. Obama has always said Kapolani Hospital, and his sister never said any different. And, this witness apparently confirms that he was born in Kapolani. (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html)

Re: "And the officials in Hawaii telling us what's on the long form is laughable. If the issue is privacy, they broke the law when they did that."

So sue them.

Re: "Sure, Obama would never prosecute them for that because he wants us all to believe without seeing."

If they lied, it would not be a federal offense. It would be a state offense, fraud. The governor of Hawaii is a Republican. If two officials in her administration had lied or broken the privacy laws, the very least that she could do would be to fire them.

Re: "His long form would state the hospital he was born in, that should at least be worth something from an historical standpoint."

Yes, but Obama does not have it. Hawaii only sends out the short-form Certification of Live Birth (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). That being the case, the only sure place to get a copy of the original from would be from Hawaii. Since Hawaii has the original, why not press Hawaii to release it?

I have no objection because it will show, as the two officials have said, that Obama was born in Hawaii.

The original topic of this discussion, however, was the allegation that Obama was born in Kenya. Of that, the conservative National Journal commented: "The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff." (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=&w=MA)

And the Wall Street Journal: "Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn."


Posted by: smrstrauss at October 18, 2009 9:56 AM


According to this well documented story, even Obama's official website stated that Obama was born at Queen's hospital until it was scrubbed along with the Snopes article, which also had listed Queen's hospital.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=103633

There's a lot of information going down the memory hole under Obama's administration, and that should cause any sane person to get a little worried. The worst thing in my mind is the way they try to make evidence disappear without so much as acknowledging that it was out there at all. It's like we're living in Orwell's 1984 novel. Oh, and I also personally looked up an official Hawaiian website that stated that it was mandatory to provide a long form birth certificate in order to purchase land under a Hawaiian program after the election. That, too, was scrubbed.

I'm not going to get into everything on your post, but I will say this--do you not see a major difference in the thoroughness of the investigation into McCain (They went all the way to the registrar's book in McCain's case! Good God, that's thorough! But they don't have a burning interest to see Obama's long form BC? The double standard reeks.)? And as I said before, there is no reason to think that McCain would have had any divided loyalties at birth being born to two American citizens (one of whom was a high ranking US military officer) even if he had been born in the jungles of Nairobi. A person born with dual citizenship, like Obama, is a whole other story. And that he was born with dual citizenship is a fact, not a conspiracy theory.

Posted by: Judith M. at October 18, 2009 10:38 AM


"Yes she did (though I haven't actually seen her do it, but let's say that she did). Would you accept the same thing from Obama's mother?"

Such a testimonial would definitely be a step in the right direction, but I'd settle for his long form BC, since necromancy is a little unorthodox.

Posted by: Judith M. at October 18, 2009 11:34 AM


Re: "but I'd settle for his long form BC."

Then ask the Governor of Hawaii, Linda Lingle, to change the law to allow the long-form birth certificate to be sent out. Currently, Hawaii sends out only the short-form Certification (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html), which in Obama's case has been confirmed by the officials.

Still, if you want to see the original, have her change the law or the regulations to send it out or to make it a public document. Until then, Hawaii sends out only the short-form Certification, which is accepted by all the Departments in Hawaii (yes, including DHHL, I checked) as proof of birth in Hawaii, and it is accepted by the US State Department as proof of birth in the USA.

The Wall Street Journal commented: "Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.

The release of the obsolete birth certificate would not “resolve the issue” to those for whom it is not already resolved. They claim without basis that today’s birth certificate is a fake; there is nothing to stop them from claiming without basis that yesterday’s is as well.'

By the way, the governor of Hawaii is a Republican. But that is irrelevant; even Democrats and independents would support a change in the law to show the original birth certificate. The Democrats would because they are convinced, as I am, that it will show that Obama was born in Hawaii (because that is what the two officials said twice).

But, it is still unnecessary. The document that Obama has shown is the OFFICIAL birth certificate, and the facts on it have been confirmed, and there is not a shred of evidence that Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii.

Of the fantasy that Obama was born in Kenya, which was the original topic of this discussion, the conservative National Review commented: "The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff.'

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=&w=MA

Re: "Oh, and I also personally looked up an official Hawaiian website that stated that it was mandatory to provide a long form birth certificate in order to purchase land under a Hawaiian program after the election. That, too, was scrubbed."

You are wrong. That was DHHL, the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands. It never said that the original was required. It said that it (the department) preferred the original. That was a legitimate thing to say because some people do have the original, which was sent to their parents and which in their case the family did not lose. But what about people who did lose the original birth certificate?

I asked DHHL about that, and they replied that they, like all the departments in Hawaii, accept the Certification of Live Birth as proof of birth in Hawaii, and they recognize that the Department of Health of Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the original. In that case, they said, they would take the Certification of Live Birth as a starting point and try to confirm the Hawaiian racial background of the applicant using other documents.

So, they like all the other departments in Hawaii, and the US State Department and the US Military, accept the Certification of Live Birth as proof of birth in Hawaii and in the USA.

Posted by: smrstrauss at October 18, 2009 4:20 PM


From what I understand there is no law preventing the health department from releasing a certified copy of the long form BC to the individual it belongs to. If there is a law, please cite the statute, and I don't mean a statute that says the long form cannot be released to a third party, but one that says an individual cannot request a copy of his or her long form.

What we seem to be dealing with is a policy, not a law, and if Obama wanted to, and he really should if he has any consideration for following proper documentation procedures, is request personally that they change the policy for cases where a Hawaiian born individual is running for the Presidency. I find it astonishing that people expect us to believe that something as insignificant as a policy is keeping Obama away from his own long form BC.

As it stands, it appears legislation will be introduced in Hawaii making long form information public knowledge. Personally, I think it would suffice to make the information public knowledge only in cases where a Hawaiian is running for the Presidency, because this native born business only comes up when people are running for the Presidency, and that's why I'm not impressed by other organizations accepting a short form COLB--they don't need to prove natural born status.

What I would like you to address is the disturbing trend regarding this issue of inconvenient pieces of information relating to Obama being scrubbed from the Internet. I've seen it happen myself and I'm starting to understand what Winston Smith felt like...

Posted by: Judith M. at October 18, 2009 7:41 PM


Re: "What we seem to be dealing with is a policy, not a law, and if Obama wanted to, and he really should if he has any consideration for following proper documentation procedures, is request personally that they change the policy for cases where a Hawaiian born individual is running for the Presidency."

I support this change in the law or regulations or if necessary both. One slight change is that it should apply not to someone who is running for the presidency but to someone who is president. (or, if you like, for both).

I do so because I am convinced that the original birth certificate will show what the two officials in Hawaii have repeatedly said, and what this witness said (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html) that he was born in Hawaii.

This would be nice, but it is unnecessary. It will show what we already are certain of, Obama's birth in Hawaii. Many states issue short-form birth certificates. Hawaii is one of them. Its COLB is accepted as proof of birth in Hawaii by all the departments in the state and as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department.

Unless there is proof to the contrary, this is sufficient. Indeed, it is far more than any president has done before. A change in the law to release the original birth certificate will, I am certain, confirm this.

The original discussion on this blog was over the allegation that Obama was born in Kenya. No one on this blog has supported this idea recently. The reason is that it is a crazy idea. As the National Review commented: "The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff."

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=&w=MA

As for things being scrubbed, I have no idea, I cannot follow these things. However, sometimes web sites had errors and they were fixed, such as the errors (all based on a false report by UPI) that Obama was born at Queens Hospital.

Posted by: Anonymous at October 19, 2009 8:37 AM


Re: "From what I understand there is no law preventing the health department from releasing a certified copy of the long form BC to the individual it belongs to. If there is a law, please cite the statute, and I don't mean a statute that says the long form cannot be released to a third party, but one that says an individual cannot request a copy of his or her long form."

I'm not sure what the law is. I am sure that the Department of Health repeatedly says that it does not send out the original. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html)

The individual can request a copy of his or her own birth certificate, and Hawaii sends out only the short-form. In fact, it is highly likely that Obama (like everyone) asked for a copy of his birth certificate, and Hawaii send him the short-form certification.

As you say, there is a movement on the part of legislators in Hawaii to change the law or the rules so that the original can be sent out, or that the complete files of the president can be seen. I support either of these. Why? Because they will show what the two officials in Hawaii said, that Obama was born in Hawaii.

This would be nice, but it is unnecessary. It is unnecessary because the short-form birth certificate is what everyone in Hawaii gets these days and because it is the official birth certificate and because the facts on it were confirmed by the officials.

Re: "if Obama wanted to, and he really should if he has any consideration for following proper documentation procedures, is request personally that they change the policy for cases where a Hawaiian born individual is running for the Presidency.'

Obama could, but it is unnecessary, and he knows it. Who would it convince who have not already been convinced, other than the birthers. But we can ask without him. The name of the governor of Hawaii is Linda Lingle. If she changes the rules, then the original can be shown, and it will show that Obama was born in Hawaii.

Re: "I find it astonishing that people expect us to believe that something as insignificant as a policy is keeping Obama away from his own long form BC."

It is the combination of the policy and the fact that it is unnecessary. Did you know that the "Birther bill", which is the bill introduced in the US Congress to make candidates in future elections show their place of birth, asks for the official birth certificate, not the original birth certificate.

Re: "As it stands, it appears legislation will be introduced in Hawaii making long form information public knowledge. Personally, I think it would suffice to make the information public knowledge only in cases where a Hawaiian is running for the Presidency..."

I support this and go further. The legislation should make the birth files of candidates AND presidents public documents so that anyone can see them. As I'm sure you know, I support this because I am convinced that Obama was born in Hawaii, as the two officials said. As I said before, this would be nice, but it is unnecessary. The short-form certification is legal proof of birth in Hawaii, the confirmation of the officials substantiates the fact that he was born in Hawaii.

The original discussion on this blog was on the much more radical idea that Obama was born in Kenya. There has been no proof of this, and it is highly unlikely given the expense and risk of such a trip during pregnancy. As the National Review said: "The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff."

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=&w=MA


Re scrubbed sites. I don't follow this so I can't comment. Some organizations have changed their sites because they have new information or new policies. For example, all the sites that quoted UPI on Obama being born at Queens Hospital have changed to Kap Hospital because UPI was wrong.

Re: "I'm not impressed by other organizations accepting a short form COLB--they don't need to prove natural born status."

As I said before, the "birther bill" asks for the official birth certificate, not the original birth certificate.


Posted by: srmstrauss at October 19, 2009 9:01 AM


GtQZfC htilittlpymv, [url=http://vghkxigeqjpt.com/]vghkxigeqjpt[/url], [link=http://zhdgfnzlfavp.com/]zhdgfnzlfavp[/link], http://uqqkeplndfmc.com/

Posted by: tqnrsk at October 25, 2009 3:39 AM


Post a comment




Remember Me?

(you may use HTML tags for style)