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It's been on TV. I forget who did the report, but these underground railroads have been in business for years. So much for the 'wonderful' Canadian model.

Where do they go after we become Socialist... Mexico?

I have one example that contradicts that list. My uncle, who lives in Canada, had a heart attack. He went into hospital emergency and presented his health card. He was in a bed and under care almost immediately. He got angioplasty to put two stents into a blocked heart artery in less than 24 hours. When he was released from hospital, that was it, it cost him nothing other than his regular health care premium which is a little over $500 a year. He's still well and active 3 years later.

Yeah, moonbats always seem to come up with a single anecdote that supposedly negates reams of data.

A single anecdote does say that you should not presume that EVERY Canadian who needs an angioplasty has to wait 12 months to get it. "Need" obviously changes from case to case. Triage is standard procedure in every hospital.

ah but Maxwell - triage should be performed by the medical community not the government bureaucrats.
that's the whole point of the health care controversy, when go'vt performs triage you get the 12 month waits......

AND YET, most canadians defend their government welfare healthcare. YAH SURE, as long as they have the US to run to when things get tough. Typical liberal half-wits! Watch them get all wee-weed up if our helathcare turns to crap like theirs!

The waits are a function of supply and demand. Too many patients in the system, and too few doctors. The rationing of care is inevitable.

A smart health care system would focus on maximizing supply and competition. It's the stupid ones that maximize "access" while restricting supply through government control.

I'm a Canadian of an advanced age and I've had some of the procedures on the list you've provided, as have friends and family. I've had surgeries both elective and non-elective, serious and not-so-serious, as have my friends and family, and the longest I've had to wait was 2 weeks, and that was because of MY schedule, not the doctor's or the hospital's. My sister has to have a breast removed and her wait is 10 days. No one I know has had to wait more than 4 weeks for ANY type of hospital care or surgery in my lifetime, to my knowledge. The examples people quote of long waits are the exception, not the rule. And it's the hospital that does the triage, not the government.

Your country is currently embroiled in a debate over health care, and however that is resolved is up to you, and SHOULD be up to you. But don't tramp on our system — it does work for us and has worked for decades. And no matter what system any nation comes up with there will always be individuals ready to make money by circumventing it.

Hey Wayne I'm from Mars and I don't have to wait for anything. Man this sure is fun to be anything and anyone on the intergorenet.

What, exactly, is the problem here? This isn't an "underground railroad"; this is a referral service to existing private facilities.

Poor people get somewhat crappy care, yes, but people who can afford the price tag get better care. This is opposed to the US, where people who can afford it get good care and poor people get NO care. Canada spends less per person on health care and gets better results.

Now, the US shouldn't adopt public health care because of runaway government spending. Adding another social entitlement now would be madness. However, Canada dug itself out of debt in the 90s and its deficit spending now isn't even close to that of the US. It works for Canada, they can afford it, they pay less, and live longer.

What's the problem?

Didn't the Canadian version of the AMA just come out in the past month or two stating that the current system there is broken and unsustainable?

Geez another dumbass that doesn't know ANYONE can walk into a hospital and they MUST be taken care of.

Only a leftist kool-aid drinker could admit that Canadian care is "somewhat crappy," look at a one year wait for an angioplasty and declare, "what's the problem?"

The fact that these referral services exist at all is indictment enough of the Canadian health care system.

Seamus you are correct. Also for our little socialist buddies take a gander at massachusetts's healthcare,it's running a billion dollar deficet. Of course we can't forget about jolly old England that has to ration care becasue the state can't support it. Unless of course you are 12 years old and want a sex change. By the way how did that go wellstone?

Posted by: V the K at September 28, 2009 12:25 PM

What matters is overall survival rate. Is it better when everyone waits a bit, or when some people get fast care and some get none?

(It's the first.)

Posted by: Seamus at September 28, 2009 12:18 PM

The outgoing CMA president said he wanted more private clinics to open and that a wait time of six months for hip surgery was too high, but certainly nothing that drastic.

Posted by: Farmer Ted at September 28, 2009 12:20 PM

This attitude is the problem. In socialized care it increases wait times as everyone goes in for the sniffles. In the US it means ERs are filled to breaking and somebody ends up paying a lot more.

As someone who gets bi-annual physicals and hasn't once filled a prescription for pain medications, I would call on the average citizen to smarten and toughen up a bit.

"Conservatives oppose single payer health care because it doesn't freakin' work."

Millions and millions of Americans with no health care at all "works"???

"Sally Out West at September 28, 2009 2:02 PM"

Why are you afraid to speak against Obama?

The fact that millions of Americans have no health care at all is what you should fear.

How many millions salad out west? I've heard 50,40,30,15,or 5 million.

Isn't one million too many?

Complaining is cheap. The Republicans had power and did nothing. What do you suggest to actually deal with this issue?

Complaining is cheap. The Republicans had power and did nothing. What do you suggest to actually deal with this issue?

A Visual Guide: The Balance Of Power Between Congress and The Presidency

Now, with all that CONgress control, why did Democrats do nothing?

You had plenty but you did nothing. Therefore, you are not one to complain directly at Republicans, but Washington as a whole.

Also notice that, during the time that Democrats had the majority in the House, they had super-majorities (most of them). Also notice that when you had the Senate, you were in the upper-50s nearly every time. You had the power and misused it (or didn't fix the problems that exist now). Ignorance to the facts is no excuse for the failures of both sides of the spectrum.

Please refute.

So let me get this straight salad out west. People who have the money or don't want healthcare should be FORCED to have healthcare. Are 1 million people too many to be forced to have healthcare? Are 1 million people too many to be told what to do with their health? Welcome to the real world salad.

The fact that millions of Americans have no health care at all is what you should fear.

Not true. Not having insurance is not the same as not having health care. Everybody has access to health care in one form or another.

And many of those who aren't insured aren't Americans.

I don't know of anybody who says that the current healthcare system is optimal. It's not a case of "National Healthcare" or "No Healthcare." The government doesn't have a great track record for making things run smoother.

THe majority of the American people now get the truth of the Obama plan...

1. Taxes will go up for most people.

2. Health care will get worse for most people.

These two facts simple are why people oppose ObamaCare.

"Millions and millions of Americans with no health care at all "works"???"

I saw a guy today driving a customized car today with a fancy paint job, booming stereo, and custom rims that probably cost at least $3,000. I'll bet ya he didn't have "health care" or insurance as the rest of us call it.

I'm not a Canadian but I play one on blogs. I think I speak for all Canadians when I say socialized healthcare, for only $500 yearly, is GREEEEAAAAAT!

Those are some eye-opening numbers, Gregory. The bottom line line is this--no one would use these referral services if they were getting better service through the Canadian system, which they have already paid for, QED, the Canadian system sucks rocks.

I looked at your visual guide, did you?

In the 107th congress the Democrats had a one seat advantage in the senate. 2003-2005 the Republicans controlled the Presidency, House and Senate.

So you're ignoring the years and years and years before that where you had the opportunity but instead, did nothing. Thank you for proving my point.

Because it's only a problem since Democrats are now in control, right?

I LOVE this site.

The Canadian system "works" because many of the people who would otherwise be using it are running across the border to get their procedures done in the US instead. I've heard Canadians admit this.

The fact that there are more MRI machines in Cleveland than in all of Canada, tells you all you need to know.

If the Canadians and Europeans are happy with their system, fine. In the meantime, I'll stick to what I can verify - data such as this chart, as well as common sense which would tell me that you cannot add millions of people to any system without causing rationing and/or raising costs.

There's something fairly consistent about so many left-wingers who want more socialism. They seem to think that somewhere in America is this big locked room filled with cash, and if the mean ol' Republicans would just give them the key to that room then everything would be fine.