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August 3, 2009

ObamaCare's Reception in Texas

Here's what happened when Dem Congresscommie Lloyd Doggett dared to meet with his constituents regarding government seizure of the healthcare industry the other day:

The silent majority doesn't sound so silent anymore.

dumpdoggett reports from the scene:

Rep Doggett met with constituents outside a grocery store in south Austin regarding the health care bill. Apparently the event was mostly advertised in liberal leaning local publications. He did not bring a megaphone, so hearing what he had to say was difficult. When he started making the move to leave, the crowd erupted chanting "Just say no!" His worker got the car ready to shuttle him away but the crowd surrounded it and it took a while for him to get out of the parking lot. The whole time, the "Just say no!" chant continued. It probably won't matter — from his facial expression, body language, and what was heard to come out of his mouth, he's for the health care bill in its present form and has no openness to change on that.
Mr Doggett did not spend time to get to know the crowd. If he had spent time actually talking to those that were there with an open mind, he would have seen that there was a significant number of Democrats there that do not support the current health care bill.
Please note that I was not chanting. I did not arrive in a bus, and I was not paid to be there. Neither was anyone else that I spoke with. I simply showed up to see what the congressman had to say. His resolve to vote his 'conscience' even if it goes against the desires of his constituents is not at all what our representative government is about.

Showing these arrogant, power-drunk socialists the door in 2010 is exactly what our representative government is about.

On a tip from nancz.

Posted by Van Helsing at August 3, 2009 8:55 PM

Comments

If you disrupt a Conservative it is Patriotic.

If you ask questions of a Liberal you are a Mob.

This is really pissing the left off.

They just expected us to sit back and take it.

Posted by: Oiao at August 3, 2009 9:06 PM

you will know them by their LACK of conscience! bet they never expected this from the rest of u.s....

Posted by: nancz at August 3, 2009 9:40 PM

I actually believe the communists are in shock that many of us are doing something about this attempt to wipe out America.

For years we really haven't done anything but ignore their lies and trechery. NOW they are begining to feel the heat and it scares them to death.

Posted by: Michelle at August 3, 2009 9:41 PM

This out-of-touch old fool has his base in liberal Austin, but it appears even they are enraged and ready to tar and feather him if he makes good on voting for nationalizing healthcare and making people wait in lines or die before they get treatment. Go for it Lloyd - sell out your constituents and country and vote your communist conscience and they'll throw you out on you butt and you'll have to become an unemployed law professor again.

Posted by: clingtomyguns at August 3, 2009 9:59 PM

[i]His resolve to vote his 'conscience' even if it goes against the desires of his constituents is not at all what our representative government is about.[/i]

Actually, it is. In a Republic, a representative is elected to vote his conscience and conviction [i]inside the law[/i], rather than the transient and fleeting desires of his constituents. Anything else is democracy which leads to... well, what we have today.

Let me just say that this is what I have always believed, since Mrs Lewis taught it to me in third grade. If I am wrong, I would very much like to be corrected.

Posted by: Cynyr at August 4, 2009 3:58 AM

On the other hand, Cynyr, if an elected official of any type changes their tune after election, that is treachery. For example, Obama campaigned on no taxes for the middle class, TRANSPARENCY, the promise to publish bills on the internet several days before votes, and centrism. He's broken all of that. That is treachery and outright lying. I do not know how Doggett campaigned or what he promised exactly. They do have a responsibility to listen to their constituents.

Posted by: Karin at August 4, 2009 5:31 AM

I have a hard time reconciling Pres. Bush's comment, "Read my lips...." and the political firestorm over some perceived tax increases with the blatant lies and 180 degree changes in the Moonbat Messiah's words vs. deeds.

If this guy were a Republican he would have been taken out behind the courthouse and strung-up a long time ago!

Posted by: Duke at August 4, 2009 5:38 AM

Karin, how has Obama reneged on his no taxes for the middle class promise?

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 5:47 AM

So far Obama has raised taxes on Cigarettes - which hits the poor and middle class the most. Now he claims he was only talking about payroll taxes back then.

Now there is talk, from administration officials, of higher gasoline taxes, general energy taxes, food taxes and even broader based taxes to pay for healthcare and other projects as there simply isnt enough money taxing the top 5% alone for everything he wants to do.

Posted by: Ghost of Mary Jo Kopechne at August 4, 2009 5:55 AM

andy, you useful idiot, are you content to see your once great nation turned into a third rate tin pot banana republic dictatorship by an incompetent boob who only 'meant well'? Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, Lenin, Hitler and Mugabe all only 'meant well' too.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 4, 2009 6:04 AM

Cynyr, you and Mrs Lewis are wrong, no surprise on the latter. Representatives are supposed to represent, i.e., vote as their constituents want, or as they believe - hence the party system.

The beauty of the representative system in the US, is that it dilutes the power of the mob down to 453 voting members each of whom wield equal power.

Posted by: Great Caesar's Ghost at August 4, 2009 6:17 AM

Anon, Karin said that Obama has lied on his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class. It didn't happen. I think that we're more likely to become a banana republic if we simply bob our heads in agreement to knowingly false statements simply because they are what we want to hear and then label everyone as "Hitler" that ever challenges those discrepancies.

G of Mary Jo, I too opposed the tax on cigarettes. At the end of the day however, a tax is money money the government reaches in my pocket and takes. I have no choice. On cigarettes, I have an option. Granted, that argument may be a bit lame but the tobacco debate does bring up a lot more issues than simply being a tax on the people.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 6:25 AM

Cynyr, A couple of things for your consideration.
1. What type of moonbat is teaching political science to a third grader? (you should have learned better by now, at that age it is called indoctrination)
2. In a constitutional republic the government is elected "by the people" to "represent" the desires of his constituents. (and nothing else)
3. Transient and fleeting desires, and consciencious voting by electees are NOT listed in the Constitution of the United States of America as a guideline, they are however an exclusive, and dominating personality trait of left-wing moonbat radical despot progressive commiecrat liberal socialist power-seeking bottom-dwellers who want to convert the finest government mankind has ever known into a back-stabbing all-powerful nanny-state meterosexual utopia where only the "other people" have hardships pain and death.
4. All democrats, and most republicans need to be thrown out of office as quickly as possible, with as much malice and anger as the law allows in order to prevent "what we have today" from ever happening again, and if necessary, not very nicely either.

Posted by: Eric at August 4, 2009 6:31 AM

Andy,

they've already raised the cigarette tax, which will impact many in the middle class. I know you'll probably say "well, they don't have to smoke", but that argument can be used with almost any tax. If you don't want to pay taxes, you could quit your job too.

And based on Rangel's previous tax bill, I expect my taxes to go up because I'm self-employed. The proposal would expand the application of the full 15% payroll tax to all s-corp income rather than just applying the payroll tax to salaries (aka payroll). It's just a matter of time until they introduce another similar "tax reform" that will effectively raise the tax burden on small businesses whether they make more than $250k or not. And while I'm paying thousands in extra taxes, they will claim they haven't increased my TAX RATE, and the MSM will accept that on face value and parrot the Democrat talking points.

Posted by: forest at August 4, 2009 6:32 AM

apparently only the "top 5%" of income earners smoke cigarettes.

Posted by: weewilly at August 4, 2009 7:13 AM

Forest, if you want to stand on the argument that Obama lied because he supported the cigarette tax, I'll except that as an answer. It is however on the weak side, somewhat grasping. So is your assumption that people can quit their jobs if they don't like paying taxes. One could also move from their home and under a bridge if they don't want to pay property taxes or have their utilities cut off if they don't want to pay school or support taxes associated with them. People in general just can't do that. If you want to cling to that as justification for saying Obama lied, fair enough. It's a lot better than most rebuttals here.

Oh but let me point out that when the top 5% got their $1.8 trillion ten year tax breaks, the result was less revenue for states which resulted in less revenue for counties which resulted in less revenue for cities. I know that in Kentucky, we saw raises on libraries taxes, employment taxes, utilities, and the list goes on. And Kentucky is considered a red state and had a R Governor at the time.

As far as what happens in the future, I have no answer. As of today, the only thing you have is the cigarette tax. And again, that issue has many arguments.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 7:24 AM

I won't reiterate what the others have said Andy, but just this last weekend you had Geithner and Summers on TV, hinting broadly that taxes will have to be kept on the table. There is no mathematical way to implement zero's agenda without taxing the hell out of all of us.

What if it's just the top 5% guys? I work for an S-corp in NY state. All these taxes get piled on, and the owner gets smacked for almost 60%. Why the hell get up in morning then? He could quite easily go Galt, lock the doors, and move to a nice low tax Red state. Then I'm hosed.

Andy, we're fighting hard to PREVENT the out and out theft of whatever degree of wealth we have. We've seen Obama lie and we know he's a tax loving socialist. So we fight.

Posted by: Karin at August 4, 2009 8:24 AM

Andy: I won’t speak for the feds but I will speak about my state.

In California, we’ve got hit pretty hard with tax increases.

Sales tax in OC went up 1%. That’s quite a big when you add up big ticket purchases or purchases during the year.

Vehicular tax (mine went up 30%). So my old clunker that runs perfectly well went from $77 a year to $100. I guess the state of California needs money to pay all those illegal aliens.

In California we have about 5,000 pensioners (who are retired state government workers) who are drawing an annual pension of over 100K a year. Financed entirely by the taxpayers. There is NO where in the private sector you can get that type of pension unless you paid for it yourself. No the state of California paid for it. Now the government unions (mostly liberals) are whining that they have to be furloughed 3 days a months. GET OVER IT!

Well guess what? Most of us who either been on unemployment or self employed have had to take a cut in pay as we either lost our job or lost customers. So we need to all feel the pain, just not the private sector.

Then to add insult to injury, I’m supposed to look the other way while Mexican women cross the border, have a baby DELIBERATELY in a US hospital so they can access taxpayer benefits.

It stands to reason that if you have more tax parasites than producers, you’ve got a problem. That’s what I hate about liberals. You have NO right to my money.

Tax money is for basic services, police, fire and infrastructure. No NEA or bullshit similar to that.

Don’t get me wrong. There are a lot of Republicans in power that I cannot stand and their asses need booted out too. Especially the sellouts that stand by healthcare, cap and trade, amnesty for illegals and all these so called appointed czars.


Posted by: Janet at August 4, 2009 8:36 AM

Karin, I'm aware that Geithner and Summers threw that tax increase out there but Obama has since adamantly stated that it won't happen. All I did was call you out on the lunacy of stating that it has already happened. It hasn't. And if it does, history will likely repeat itself as it did with GWHB "read my lips" promise. Obama knows this.

Speaking of lunacy, this entire thread reeks of it. There's an asinine assumption that these were Doggett's constituents that were chanting. Considering he's a 16 year Congressman of a strong left leaning district and just won reelection by about 65% to 30, that somewhat defies logic. What we're seeing is just another promotion by lobbyist-run groups - Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks.

Another lame assumption is that Doggett didn't want to address his constituents. The fact is that they had no interest in discussion and wasn't even going to let the Doggett speak. It was they that weren't interested in dialog.

I'm also wondering why this sudden switch and now representatives should listen to their constituents. I've argued this point before on here (mainly of that blatant screw-you of Bush or the "so" of Cheney)and many of you seemed to think that those elected know best and they're doing what the people elected them for. Does this only apply when it's something the right wing supports?

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 9:25 AM

It's simple math, really. Remember basic algebra? Here's the formula:

F - (T + B) > R

Where: F = All the free shit Chairman Zero promised the slackers;
T = How much the Gubbermint takes from us in taxes now;
B = How much extra the Chinese will loan us
and R = How much more he can tax "the Rich" before they decide to go Galt and just quit working. Then the next 5% down become "the top 5%". Wash, rinse, repeat.

Notice the >? That means "greater than", and if it were proportionate, it would fill your entire screen. There are two ways for Barry to get that money:

1. Raise taxes on the rest of us (the sacred 95%)
2. Crank up the presses at the Fed Reserve, like they did in Zimbabwe. Then our money is worth less, effectively... well, see method #1.

Posted by: hiram at August 4, 2009 9:32 AM

Besides all of which, just because it hasn't happened already, doesn't mean it's not in the plans. I haven't been disarmed yet but fully expect to see the attempt. Likewise with the taxes. Maximum leader zero is a monumental liar and Andy is still a moron.

Posted by: Mr Evilwrench at August 4, 2009 9:33 AM

Everybody: Go read Iowahawk today, RE above. Too funny.

Posted by: Karin at August 4, 2009 10:37 AM

All I did was call you out on the lunacy of stating that it has already happened. It hasn't.

So, Andy, just to be clear if (or as I think, when) Obama and Congress do raise taxes, you'll oppose it, and them?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 12:10 PM

Andy will never oppose anything from these socialist. He's to stupid to read his receipts when he buys groceries. I'll bet that socialist idiot doesn't even read his utility bill before hey pays it and probably his phone bill as well. All you have to do is pay attention to details Candy Andy and you will see. These socialist, or as a blogger referred to them as socialist Democrats are a sneaky lot.

By the way....your still my favorite socialist!

Posted by: Don Imus at August 4, 2009 1:13 PM

Sorry Andy that last post was mine. I used Don Imus handle to make a first lady joke.

Posted by: Dave at August 4, 2009 1:18 PM

Vague question Jay. Will I be opposed to letting the tax breaks for the wealthy expire? No. We still have the Iraq monstrosity to pay for and it hasn't even been part of the equation. When that comes due, it won't be Obama's fault. If the stimulus proves advantageous, will I be opposed to paying for the clean up of the GOP's incompetence? No. If they incur the need to raise taxes through their own incompetence? Yes.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 1:22 PM

OK, let's just snug the question down, so we don't leave any weaseling room, and we take the goalposts down off that flatbed truck. Obama said that he would:

Cut taxes for 95 percent of workers and their families with a tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples.

Provide generous tax cuts for low- and middle-income seniors, homeowners, the uninsured, and families sending a child to college or looking to save and accumulate wealth.

Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward investments in innovation.

He further said that

Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase.

All of these promises came from ...Barack Obama's website. So can we agree that he actually promised all this, and he hasn't retracted any of it to this day?

Now, please, no weaseling about the Iraq War, or "cleaning up the GOP's incompetence," or anything of the sort. Obama knew the financial situation before he took office. It isn't as if he just showed up in DC on January 21st and someone filled him in. Furthermore, he hasn't backed off of these promises, so presumably he stands by them.

So I repeat my question: if and when Obama and Congress raise taxes – which I think they'll have to do to reduce the massive increase in deficit they've caused – will you oppose it, and them? Yes or no?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 2:12 PM

Jay, I don't understand how your question, or your audacity in demanding I answer your question, has anything to do with the lunacy that I've called out on this thread. That lunacy is that Karin said Obama has already raised taxes, that you guys hypocritically flip flop on whether representatives should do what their constituents want, the insinuation that Doggett is refusing reasonable dialog with his constituents, and the claim that the hecklers were his constituents. Evidence is building and pretty much confirmed that this is all more of an Insurance paid scam to prevent competition. And that's being more exposed as we speak. What you're doing is the same thing this thread is doing: trying to evade the truth or keep the eyes off the eight ball while you spin and fabricate in order to help coddle the almighty insurance companies that have spent mass amounts of cash on the GOP.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 2:57 PM

"andy42302 at August 4, 2009 2:57 PM"

Chickenshit.

Ignore andy, ignore them all.

Posted by: KHarn at August 4, 2009 3:08 PM

Jay, I don't understand how your question, or your audacity in demanding I answer your question, has anything to do with the lunacy that I've called out on this thread. That lunacy is that Karin said Obama has already raised taxes, that you guys hypocritically flip flop on whether representatives should do what their constituents want, the insinuation that Doggett is refusing reasonable dialog with his constituents, and the claim that the hecklers were his constituents. Evidence is building and pretty much confirmed that this is all more of an Insurance paid scam to prevent competition. And that's being more exposed as we speak. What you're doing is the same thing this thread is doing: trying to evade the truth or keep the eyes off the eight ball while you spin and fabricate in order to help coddle the almighty insurance companies that have spent mass amounts of cash on the GOP.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 2:57 PM

Translation: Jay I'm to much of a hypocritical socialist chicken shit to answer your question and I am above you. I am an elitist.

Andy will take a wait and see posture so he will know which band wagon to jump on. He's a follower and not a leader.

Posted by: Dave at August 4, 2009 3:12 PM

Sorry, folks, Candy Andy has pulled it off again. On a thread developing about what a representative has to do, Karin raised the legitimate point that he has to keep promises. She gave a short list of broken promises of Obama. Andy jumped on what he thought was the weakest - about not raising taxes. All this is typical diversionary stuff, and it worked again.
He also used the favorite ploy of obfuscators. The definitions ploy - in this case how do you define taxes? Obama said no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. Cigarette tax went up. In this case it affected the middle class because it was a universal tax. The cigarette tax did not contain an exemption for the those earning less than $250,000.
A tax is a tax is a tax. Up is up is up.
Now he is spinning out a new one, the party line about insurance scams. He is a paid blogger, paid to disrupt. He is also very conceited.

Posted by: jim at August 4, 2009 3:13 PM

Exactly KHarn, ignoring is all you have left. You have no rebuttal because you know I'm right. Obama raise cigarette taxes. Ok, you got me. But you know that you guys flip flop on reps listening to the voters---it just depends on if it's your side. You know that Doggett couldn't engage in a reasonable discussion because the hecklers stopped that, not him. You know that it wasn't Doggett's constituents that was disrupting. You also know that there's a bigger drive behind these interruptions other than some grass roots movement. And you know that Insurance companies have the GOP in their pockets. You know these things because they are indisputable facts. Your only option is to shut the fuck up and try to spin on another day. That's your only logical alternative. You can't take these issues head on because you know damn well what's going on. And you know that.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 3:28 PM

Change the word 'tax' to 'fee' and this administration, and all of the failing Democratic Party controlled states are raising your taxes through increasing 'fees'.

Posted by: Anonymous at August 4, 2009 3:32 PM

Exactly KHarn, ignoring is all you have left. You have no rebuttal because you know I'm right. Obama raise cigarette taxes. OK, you got me. But you know that you guys flip flop on reps listening to the voters---it just depends on if it's your side. You know that Doggett couldn't engage in a reasonable discussion because the hecklers stopped that, not him. You know that it wasn't Doggett's constituents that was disrupting. You also know that there's a bigger drive behind these interruptions other than some grass roots movement. And you know that Insurance companies have the GOP in their pockets. You know these things because they are indisputable facts. Your only option is to shut the fuck up and try to spin on another day. That's your only logical alternative. You can't take these issues head on because you know damn well what's going on. And you know that.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 3:28 PM

Translation: Lets divert attention from jays answer because my pussy ass can't answer it. I'll use KHarn as my diversion.

Andy you would be a great politician.....you are full of shit and an asshole.

Posted by: Dave at August 4, 2009 3:37 PM

Just as I thought: you know as well as everyone else that the Messiah will have to either 1) raise taxes stratospherically, 2) allow rampant inflation, or 3) some combination of the two.

You're just not honest enough to admit it. Instead, you're already starting with the excuse-making for the trainwreck that Obama is engineering, when overseas investors refuse to buy our debt because they, too, see our options as 1, 2, or 3 above. Obama has already, in six months, increased the deficit by more than Bush did in eight years, while fighting two (utterly necessary) wars.

Bottom line: all of Obama's tax proposals were designed to seduce the stupid and the gullible, i.e., the Democrat base. By 2010 harsh reality - and the new taxes - will be setting in. Look for a Democrat bloodbath in the midterm elections. (If you think Democrat Congressmen are getting a rough ride from their constituents now, just wait until November 2010.) You heard it here first.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 4:57 PM

Evidence is building and pretty much confirmed that this is all more of an Insurance paid scam to prevent competition.

That's rubbish, but rather than argue about it, consider this: what if that is not the case, and you're looking at legitimate voter outrage?

to help coddle the almighty insurance companies that have spent mass amounts of cash on the GOP.

Wrong. But don't let that stop you from reciting communist agitprop. Here are the facts from Open Secrets: in the 2008 cycle, the insurance industry gave $46,768,355, with 45% ($20,947,555) going to Democrats, and 55% ($25,741,333) to Republicans. Almost an even split.

Now let's look at some other industries. Lawyers gave $233,883,007 (whoa!), 76% of which went to Dems. Education gave $56,958,430, 82% of which went to Dems.

Two other nuggets to kill Red agitprop a-borning: Lobbyists gave $35,850,799, 57% of which went to Dems. Those nasty pharmaceutical companies gave $29,384,371, exactly 50% to each party (so much for pharma being a Republican constituency).

So, your perspective does not comport well with reality.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 5:11 PM

"Forest, if you want to stand on the argument that Obama lied because he supported the cigarette tax, I'll except that as an answer." - Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 7:24 AM

Well, that was easy. He raised taxes after he said he wouldn't. Now the question is "how many more times is he going to do it"?

Posted by: forest at August 4, 2009 5:26 PM

Btw, if you ever wondered why tort and educational reform - both much needed - aren't even brought up, consider the numbers above and wonder no more.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 5:28 PM

Jay, let me lay this out for you the best I can.

KHarn suggested that you were over your head. Accordingly, STFU as you have no agrument.

If you insist on pursuing it, your childish distractions have been detected as well as your avoidance of the real issues.

With that said, the unanswered questions are as followed:

How did Doggett refuse dialog with his constituents when he couldn't get a word in edgewise?

How and why did this happen in an extremely Doggett friendly district? That means I'm saying that they weren't in fact his constituents.

Why do you flip flop on whether representatives should legislate based on their constituents wishes?


Now you can dodge those questions by injecting non sequitur bullshit all you like but it doesn't change the fact that that this blog's utter nonsense has been called out. You can't respond with anything of substance because there is none. All you can do is to try your best to run from it with irrelevant questions. KHarn understands this and I'd suggest you heed his advice if you want to salvage your name with any thread of dignity. But if you want to proceed, answer my questions that were originally the topic before your diversion. Let's see who stands on facts and who doesn't. Got balls?

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 5:32 PM

Andy: You accuse Kharn of diversion? You cute little diversionist you.
When I was a lawyer there was a little maxim.
Law on your side? Hammer the judge.
Facts on your side? Hammer the jury.
Nothing on your side? Hammer the table.
Don't mix it with men, Andy.

Posted by: Jim at August 4, 2009 5:38 PM

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 5:32 PM

Yep.....a good politician. I like how Andy uses diversion tactics to avoid showing how much of a dip shit he really is. I'll give him one thing, he is consistent in such chicken shit tactics.

Fraud......

Posted by: Dave at August 4, 2009 5:42 PM

KHarn suggested that you were over your head. Accordingly, STFU as you have no agrument.

Are you addressing me? I do so have an "agrument."

How and why did this happen in an extremely Doggett friendly district? That means I'm saying that they weren't in fact his constituents.

Evidence? Or are you asking us to believe that there aren't 500 people in Doggett's district who legitimately oppose what is going on now? Do you believe that once elected, a Congressman is in for life and can never fall out of favor with his constituents? That'll come as great news to Tom Daschle.

Now you can dodge those questions by injecting non sequitur bullshit all you like but it doesn't change the fact that that this blog's utter nonsense has been called out. You can't respond with anything of substance because there is none. All you can do is to try your best to run from it with irrelevant questions. KHarn understands this and I'd suggest you heed his advice if you want to salvage your name with any thread of dignity. But if you want to proceed, answer my questions that were originally the topic before your diversion. Let's see who stands on facts and who doesn't. Got balls?

It's OK to be scared, Andy. Liberals have a lot to be scared of right now. And it's going to get worse. November 2010 is going to be a bloodbath.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 5:59 PM

It's OK to be scared, Andy. Liberals have a lot to be scared of right now. And it's going to get worse. November 2010 is going to be a bloodbath.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 5:59 PM

Yep......I can't wait for November Jay.
2010 will be a liberal nightmare. They have lived their fantasy long enough.

Posted by: Dave at August 4, 2009 6:03 PM

ANDY:- How and why did this happen in an extremely Doggett friendly district? That means I'm saying that they weren't in fact his constituents.

Jay Guevara:- Evidence? Or are you asking us to believe that yada,yada I have no answer so yada yada, and Tom Daschle yada, yada.

ANDY:- Now you can dodge those questions by injecting non sequitur bullshit all you like but it doesn't change the fact that that this blog's utter nonsense has been called out. You can't respond with anything of substance because there is none. All you can do is to try your best to run from it with irrelevant questions. KHarn understands this and I'd suggest you heed his advice if you want to salvage your name with any thread of dignity. But if you want to proceed, answer my questions that were originally the topic before your diversion. Let's see who stands on facts and who doesn't. Got balls?

Jay Guevara:- It's OK to be scared, Andy. Liberals yada,yada...and 2010 yada yada...

Yawn at such expectant gibberish. Listen to KHarn. It's much better to STFU and appear to be an incompetent bobbing head than to post with irrational gibberish only to prove you're an absolute idiot.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 6:36 PM

How and why did this happen in an extremely Doggett friendly district? That means I'm saying that they weren't in fact his constituents.

And you know this...how?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 6:40 PM

Interesting to note who needs plastic shorts here, and who's calm.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 6:42 PM

Oh look Andy decided to show his ignorance AGAIN!

Odumbo stated on September 12, 2008, Dover, NH

I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes


Andy the cluless asks

Karin, how has Obama reneged on his no taxes for the middle class promise?


Odumbo answered Andy on Sunday, March 29, 2009 , Washington, DC

President Obama signed a law early in his administration to raise taxes from 39 cents to $1.01 per pack of cigarettes and from 19.5 cents to 50 cents per pound for chewing tobacco.

Feb. 4 -- just 16 days into his presidency, Obama signs into law a 156 percent increase in the federal excise tax on tobacco, a hike of 61 cents per pack, which took effect on April 1.

The tax increase falls squarely on the shoulders of the middle and low-income Americans Obama said he would not raise taxes on: 55 percent of smokers are "working poor", one in four smokers live below the poverty line, and on average, smokers, whose median income is a little more than $36,000 make about 30 percent less than non-smokers.


Andy That's commonly know in English as:

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English lige, lie, from Old English lyge; akin to Old High German lugī, Old English lēogan to lie

Date: before 12th century

1)
a: an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive

b: an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker

2)
something that misleads or deceives

3) a charge of lying


Andy can you at least PRETEND to be intelligent??

Posted by: Michelle at August 4, 2009 6:45 PM

Jay, Doggett comes from a liberal district and has been congressman for 16 years. He won his last election with close to 66%. Does that answer you question? Care to answer mine?

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 6:46 PM

LOL, I almost mentioned earlier that you guys were over your heads and needed Michelle to bail you out with that mythical rulebook that solves all and also gives the losing clones an excuse to exit stage right. I just didn't want to ruin my expected conclusion.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 6:50 PM

Jay, Doggett comes from a liberal district and has been congressman for 16 years. He won his last election with close to 66%. Does that answer you question?

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 6:46 PM

Anduuuuuuh.......All around the country people are beginning to see to light. Don't you think after 16 years they are tired of the same ol' liberal bullshit. Take off the rose colored glasses and wake up. GOD YOU ARE SOOOOOO STUPID.

Posted by: Dave at August 4, 2009 7:01 PM

Jay, Doggett comes from a liberal district and has been congressman for 16 years. He won his last election with close to 66%. Does that answer you question?

No, of course not. Frankly, it's a stupid argument. Based on the 2000 Census, the average Congressional district comprises 646,952 residents. Do you mean to tell me that out of roughly half a million people you doubt that there are 500 people – the approximate number in the video – who oppose this guy's stance on socialized medicine? Seriously. Consider that 33% voted against him. That means roughly 200,000 people didn't want him as their Representative. So you're incredulous that 0.025% of those who didn't vote for him turned up to demonstrate against him? Hell, if you looked hard, you could probably find 500 Americans in Berkeley, or 500 heterosexuals in San Francisco.

So no, that does not answer my question. Not at all. Not even close.

I will leave aside the other obvious point, namely, that this issue hadn't surfaced when last Doggett ran for re-election, and that his stance on this issue could conceivably hurt him dramatically even among those who previously supported him.

So I repeat: how do you know that those protesting weren't his constituents? A friend of mine who is to the left of you (a former Jesse Jackson supporter - literally) hates Obama with a purple passion over exactly this issue.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 7:36 PM

Jay, this disruption of town halls on health care is becoming a consistent pattern. Folks are catching on. Even Fox News is reporting that non constituents are disrupting town halls. There's even Internet protocol set up on "rocking this town". Are you ignorant on this?

This is exposed. It's like the "killing grandma" nonsense. Are you trying to fool me? You? Who?

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 7:51 PM

My favorite ball of string Andy decides to show how clueless he is

Karin said that Obama has lied on his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class. It didn't happen.

Andy is to stupid to even know he's even lying?

I too opposed the tax on cigarettes.

What happened to It didn't happen. Andy?

Forest, if you want to stand on the tax on cigarettes argument it is however on the weak side, somewhat grasping.

Andy how is an argument weak when you admit it is factual? How is stating a fact THAT YOU LIED ABOUT previously grasping?

Karin all I did was call you out on the lunacy of stating that it has already happened.

Are you REALLY that CONFUSED?

First it's It didn't happen.

Now it's I too opposed the tax

But then It's somewhat grasping

Finally It brings up a lot more issues than simply being a tax on the people.

Admission Obama lied because he supported the cigarette tax, I'll accept that

I think that we're more likely to become a banana republic if we simply bob our heads in agreement to knowingly false statements simply because they are what we want to hear

WOW!

Andy your ability to lie as well as Odumbo, the entire time you're admiting that you're lying, and THEN to denounce the lie you just admitted too is simply ASTOUNDING!!

Speaking of lunacy, this entire thread reeks of it.

Only from YOU!!

But wait..... Andy want's to keep being an even bigger idiot

Jay asks Andy: if and when Obama and Congress raise taxes – will you oppose it, and them? Yes or no?

Pretty simple question I thought, how would a lying comunist answer it?

Vague question Jay.

Oh but that's just not enough of a dodge for Andy... He has to try to show his sympathy for his communist master Odumbo.

Jay, I don't understand how your question, or your audacity in demanding I answer your question, has anything to do with the lunacy that I've called out on this thread.

Remember Andy how you just LOVE to debate the issues, when you're not lying obviously. How is not answering a question justification for continuing this?

That lunacy is that Karin said Obama has already raised taxes

Andy didn't you remember when you said:

I too opposed the tax
Obama supported the cigarette tax, I'll accept that

So you agree it happend, agree with the answer given, then ALL of a sudden it's lunacy ?

Oh that's right..... You really summed it up nicely

What you're doing is trying to evade the truth or keep the eyes off the eight ball while you spin and fabricate.

Well you did say:

Evidence is building and pretty much confirmed

Oh you also said:

And that's being more exposed as we speak

Gee Andy you really are doing a fantastic job proving that you're the cause of the problem here as you so simply stated:

Speaking of lunacy, this entire thread reeks of it.

Well andy as soon as you leave there won't be any more "lunacy" and OUR thread wont "reek" with your idiotic comunist sympathy!

Don't bother to respond, I know you're afraid of me!!

Posted by: Michelle at August 4, 2009 7:56 PM

Jay, this disruption of town halls on health care is becoming a consistent pattern.

Andy, dissent is patriotic. In fact, it's the highest form of patriotism. Can't get more American than dissent, unless you go all the way to treason, right? America Akhbar, comrade!

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 8:00 PM

Dissent is fine Jay. It's just that corporate paid dissent that I have a problem with. It's even more disturbing that corporate owned congress people spew their rhetoric and innuendos on the floor. At the end of day, that's what we're dealing with. And you distract by asking me about taxes.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 8:07 PM

Dissent is fine, as long as your dissent concerns whether to collectivize the kulaks now, or next week? Got it.

"Corporate paid dissent?" Evidence?

It's even more disturbing that corporate owned congress people spew their rhetoric and innuendos on the floor.

I agree, but let's leave the Democrats out of this.

In this connection, note the top 10 heavy hitters on OpenSecrets.org:

AT&T Inc $43,225,567

American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees $40,965,173

National Assn of Realtors $35,059,763

Goldman Sachs $31,111,912

American Assn for Justice $30,733,929

Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $30,733,491

National Education Assn $29,908,375

Laborers Union $28,201,600

Service Employees International Union $27,510,607

Carpenters & Joiners Union $27,368,258

Care to take a wild-ass stab where the vast majority of that money went? Hmm?

I believe we were discussing corporate-owned Congressmen... (please note that a union is a corporation: a legal construct that treats a group of people as though they were one natural person, the definition of a "corporation").

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 8:16 PM

And further to your implicit assertions, corporations don't have the right to express their views? We should silence the NAACP, ACORN, AFSCME, SEIU, Code Pink, MoveOn, and the UAW? Or should we silence views just based on the views they hold? Please tell me how to decide which corporations should be allowed freedom of speech, and which denied it.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 8:24 PM

That's a lot of irrelevant yada yada Jay. Your point? It has nothing to do with this thread grossly misleading the Doggett ordeal. There's still a lot of issues you've dodged completely, as well as the ones you've tapped danced around. I didn't think you had balls. I knew you had no argument.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 8:24 PM

So...you have no answer, and concede the point. I accept your resignation.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 8:26 PM

Let's strip away the bullshit. You're getting reamed, and don't like it. That's understandable, but your position is indefensible, and that's why you're getting reamed, which in turn is why you're getting hot under the collar. You've lost.

It's that simple.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 8:29 PM

LOL Jay, you're more of a coward than I thought.
Lets review the questions:
How did Doggett refuse dialog with his constituents when he couldn't get a word in edgewise?

How and why did this happen in an extremely Doggett friendly district? That means I'm saying that they weren't in fact his constituents.

Why do you flip flop on whether representatives should legislate based on their constituents wishes?

Assuming you're satisfied with that second question you dodged, where's the answer to the other two?

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 8:33 PM

you have no answer and now realize that KHarn was right that you were stepping in deep water. After realizing you were in over your head, your only defense was to cry "mad wolf" and run for the hills. This of course was even after michelle couldn't save you. Logical.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 8:38 PM

ANDY: 10000 die every year due to global warming.

ANDY: I r BRILLIANT.....

INFORMED CITIZEN: 40000 abortions done per year.

ANDY: Your numbers are irrelevant.


I AM BAFFLED... and yes, I know the numbers are made up but the point still stands. Only liberals can use statistics to illustrate the points. Numbers are evil and wrong when used by the evil, greedy, fatcat conservatives.

Incredible andy... you are completely disconnected from reality and hardwired to your fantasyland of rainbows and unicorns where up is down, 2+2=chair, government works, only whites can be racist, government revenue comes from rays of sunshine... You are beyond help.

Posted by: AmericanToTheCore at August 4, 2009 8:43 PM

L

L

L

L

L L L L L L L L

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 8:44 PM

ATTC, did you attempt to say something or are you an irrelevant identity with only the sole purpose of allowing some fool to slip away?

Posted by: andy42302 at August 4, 2009 8:51 PM

I have a feeling you didn't even read my post.

Also, I find it difficult to answer your question because it wasn't a question, more of a garble of words that you are atempting to pass off as a coherent sentence.

Posted by: AmericanToTheCore at August 4, 2009 9:03 PM

Ok... I've decided Andy isn't just a lying idiot, He's MEDICALLY RETARDED

Andy: It's just that corporate paid dissent is what I have a problem with.
Jay Guevara: And further to your implicit assertions, corporations don't have the right to express their views? We should silence the NAACP, ACORN, AFSCME, SEIU, Code Pink, MoveOn, and the UAW?
Andy: That's a lot of irrelevant yada yada Jay.

Golly this mororonic ball of string just NEVER ends!

Andy: Doggett comes from a liberal district and has been congressman for 16 years. He won his last election with close to 66%.
Jay Guevara: Consider that 33% voted against him. So you're incredulous that 0.025% of those who didn't vote for him turned up to demonstrate against him?
Andy: How and why did this happen in an extremely Doggett friendly district? That means I'm saying that they weren't in fact his constituents.
Dave: Don't you think after 16 years they are tired of the same ol' liberal bullshit.

And how does the resident lying retarded communist reply?

There's still a lot of issues you've dodged completely, as well as the ones you've tapped danced around.

So an answer is "tap dancing" or "dodging" Andy? Ohhhh...... I get it!

I almost mentioned earlier that you guys were over your heads and needed Michelle to bail you out with that mythical rulebook that solves all and also gives the losing clones an excuse to exit stage right.

So let me get this straight... Jay & Dave answer your questions, YOU dont like the answer because it AS USUAL proves how little brain power you have to formulate a thought with.

So you blame your inability to admit how much of a failure you are on ME?

Andy just a little FYI... It's called projection.

Looks like our resident medically retarded communist is really excelling at what he claims Jay and Dave are doing

After realizing you were in over your head, your only defense was to cry "mad wolf" and run for the hills.

Is that similar to why you're TERRIFIED to debate me or continually hide from my posts? Are you just not bright enough? Do you know that you cant possibly debate someone who is vastly more inteligent than you are?

OR

did you attempt to say something or are you an irrelevant identity with only the sole purpose of allowing some fool to slip away?

You write such wonderful self descriptions Andy the communist cowardly clown.

Posted by: Michelle at August 4, 2009 9:04 PM

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 4, 2009 8:44 PM

Classic leval of totally AWSOME!!

Posted by: Michelle at August 4, 2009 9:09 PM

The story that people are being bused into town halls came from Pelosi, Obama and the Dems. Of course the MSM is echoing those claims but funny how not a single reporter can get a photo of said bus or an interview with a busee. The MSM is really falling down on the job these days, how hard is it to find a bus?

Posted by: tired of liberal lies at August 4, 2009 10:52 PM

I was conflicted, but I've settled on Andy42302 as being a hybrid: 60%concern/40%sad troll. It was an amusing waste of time. Thanks Andy!

Posted by: Hope at August 5, 2009 4:22 AM

Posted by: tired of liberal lies at August 4, 2009 10:52 PM

The story that people are being bused into town halls came from Pelosi, Obama and the Dems. Of course the MSM is echoing those claims but funny how not a single reporter can get a photo of said bus or an interview with a busee. The MSM is really falling down on the job these days, how hard is it to find a bus?

I challenge you to provide anything of substance to that outright lie. Links? Quotes? This nonsense of fabricating anything you like did work well with the birthing issue but you guys are running out of steam. People are catching on and more Dems and hell, even FOX News are calling you out on it.

That bus thing was a new one for me. Funny stuff.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 5, 2009 5:30 AM

Bottom line: resistance to Obama and the Democrats is real, and a genuine grassroots movement. It's not orchestrated, it's not organized, it's not paid for - we're not that organized, just pissed off.

Liberals refuse to believe that because leftists Astroturf demonstrations with paid demonstrators as a matter of course and habit. In fact, Axelrod made his name doing that.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 5, 2009 9:27 AM

Jay, you can believe that "genuine grassroots movement-not orchestrated, it's not organized" all you like but that defies what all major news organizations and even the admissions of some of the protesters. It's a known fact that these are staged protest brought to you by the same sponsors of the Tea parties: Washington lobbyists. Thinkprogress even posted Bob MacGuffie's playbook (a real one) that laid out the specifics on how to go about the disruptions. In short, everyone's onto it. Well, maybe not everyone as there's still those that adamantly claim that sun revolves around the earth and no amount of facts will change their minds.

As an elderly acquaintance of mine use to say, you're full of shit and your nickname is dodo.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 5, 2009 10:28 AM

Rubbish.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 5, 2009 1:03 PM

Face it, you simply don't want to believe the truth: Americans are pissed off. Seriously pissed off. Look at the video of the protestors: they're grownups, with families, jobs, and mortgages. We're not talking about college students, ACORN thugs, community organizers, or other worthless parasites with whom you're doubtless familiar. You don't see commercially printed signs - unlike at anti-American rallies - or any evidence of professionalism.

what all major news organizations and even the admissions of some of the protesters

Should be easy to find links then. Please post some. (And don't even bother with ThinkCommunism as a source. Pravda is more credible.)


Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 5, 2009 1:14 PM

Jay, that's an amusing rebuttal. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. Time will tell.

Posted by: andy42302 at August 5, 2009 1:15 PM

No links, huh?

It comes down to this: lefties don't like being subjected to a small taste of the same treatment they've dished out for years. Note that has been no violence, no rioting, no calls for assassination, no masked faces, not a rock thrown, no arrests (IIRC), not even any profanity - in stark contrast to any leftist demonstration. Just citizens exercising their right of free speech (and I've been one of them).

Cool, huh?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 5, 2009 1:25 PM

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/31/recess-harassment-memo/

– Artificially Inflate Your Numbers: “Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the soc.UHList agenda of Washington.”


– Be Disruptive Early And Often: “You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep’s presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep’s statements early.”

– Try To “Rattle Him,” Not Have An Intelligent Debate: “The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right back down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions.”

Grassroot movement? WTF ever!

Posted by: andy42302 at August 5, 2009 1:51 PM

No, no, no. "ThinkProgress?" Nothing from New Masses, or The Daily Worker?

I meant an potentially credible source, or at least one that one could assert was credible without laughing. With all due respect, that crap you cited was probably taken straight from Alinsky's Rules for Radicals after a quick global search and replace.

Admit it: the advice there is standard communist practice, right across the board. From SDS to Code Pink, it's exactly the sort of stuff the left does all the time.

Furthermore, watch the other videos, e.g., the ones involving Specter/Sebelius or Ellison. Typically the audience is polite and quiet until the speaker says something that raises howls of protest. To me, that indicates good faith.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 5, 2009 2:10 PM

As I said above, the fact is that the Reds don't like being on the wrong end of political protest.

I think that this is a legitimate grassroots movement, you are hewing to the CPUSA line that it isn't. But either way, even if we hired Axelrod and the Ghost of Alinsky away from you, Americans are building a mass movement that speaks truth to power. And remember: dissent is the highest form of patriotism, right? Right.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 5, 2009 2:13 PM

Jay, I don't expect you to consider thinkprogress as being credible any more than I would Rush L. But the links to Bob MacGuffie's page is there. They do a decent job of providing sources. You can go to http://teapartypatriots.ning.com/profile/BobMacGuffie if you like. Perhaps I should have said there were links to credible sources at the thinkprogress link.

I'm not going to waste time here explaining anything as I'd have more success in teaching advanced calculus to a tree frog than persuading you to understand what's directly in your face. But I'll respond with a cut and paste from a response I wrote today at The Hill to John Feehery's "Angry Mob" post. You can do what you want with it. I truly don't care. Michelle can dice it, slice it, and serve it up with fries. I honestly couldn't care less. The 3 of you can coordinate to achieve some perverted gratification if you like. I don't give a rats ass. And if you find that offensive, guess what? I don't care. I won't even revisit this thread as it's fixing to roll off the page.


It is interesting what I see as a Democrat vrs what some of my Republican friends see on this past elections, Tea Parties, and health care reform, et al.

But there's just been something wrong with Republican's story, something wrong with the picture, something that was simply amiss that didn't give them credence.

Sarah Palin for VP? Enough said.

Demonstrators protesting "Taxed Enough Already" when there's been no tax increase nor none in the works.

And then there were "killing grandma" "socialized medicine" "after a year you can't switch insurance" and other false soundbites and innuendos, many coming from actual educated Congress people that knew better. The GOP are truly starting to look like the party of birthers and flat earthers.

And now we have a traveling band of kibitzers toting their "how to disrupt" playbook taken from Bob MacGuffie's website. Isn't there just something a bit fishy here? And even if I'm being judgmental and can only see through my Democrat lenses, wouldn't concerned people, or at least many of them want a rational dialog? Wouldn't most want to at least hear the representative confirm or deny their issues?
Let's take L. Doggett for example. This guy's been a Congressman in a Democratic district for 16 years and soundly won just 6 months ago. It's reasonable to assume that the folks there are fine with him or certainly don't despise him. Yet he couldn't get a word in due to the chaotic heckling. Isn't there something off here?
Maybe I'm being bias and I really hate stooping to such childish cliches but to Sarah Palin, birthers, language manipulators, TEA Party protesters, and town hall hecklers, you lost. Get over it. Like Bush said, that's why people get to vote every 4 years. Rational debate is great. Constructive criticism is fine. Challenging leadership at town halls is super. But this isn't what we're seeing. What we're seeing is the GOP drowning in their river of distortion, deception, manipulation, and misinformation. Or, that's the way I see it.

Comment by andy42302 — August 5, 2009 @ 2:54 pm

Posted by: andy42302 at August 5, 2009 3:13 PM

This guy's been a Congressman in a Democratic district for 16 years and soundly won just 6 months ago. It's reasonable to assume that the folks there are fine with him or certainly don't despise him. Yet he couldn't get a word in due to the chaotic heckling. Isn't there something off here?

I addressed this before, but let me recap.

You lot haven't yet established your socialist utopia in which, for example, Uncle Fidel wins 99.999% of the vote. Even a small percentage of a Congressional district is a considerable number of people. I live in CA, and detest Boxer with a purple passion. If she brings her mangy butt to my neck of the woods, you can bet your mangy butt I'm going to be there heckling her loud and long. And I'm still waiting for my first check from some loyal American. It's my right to heckle her, and by God I'm going to exercise it. Dissent is patriotic, remember? You keep forgetting.

Doggett may never have been heckled before, but then he had never addressed healthcare reform before either. Perhaps he'd taken an unpopular stand on this new issue, and that's why he was getting heckled about it. (Popularity can change, you know. Think of OJ.) Ever think about that? Consider that those protesting doubtless knew perfectly well that Doggett was proposing that they get crappy government healthcare, DMV-style, while he himself – and all Congressmen – receive Cadillac care, because they're better than us. Think that that might piss people off? It does me.

And let's consider this newfound zeal for rational discourse. How much rational discourse did Sarah Palin get? (Or even Hillary, for that matter.) The vitriol to which Palin was subjected was nauseating, as bad as the racism to which black conservatives are routinely subjected. George Bush was routinely heckled by Reds by professional agitators, such as those Code Pink morons. The Nubian Nero is going to be heckled too, and soon. Think he'll let it slide, as Bush did? I don't.

Bottom line – again: you Reds don't like being on the wrong end of demonstrations. Get used to it; there are going to be lots more. Lots and lots more. The only lies, distortion, deception, manipulation and misinformation is from you and the CPUSA. It's your stock in trade, along with hate- and fear-mongering. Liberals might want what you're pushing. Americans do not. You will be stopped. I suspect you already have been stopped. That scuttling sound you hear is Congressmen back in their constituencies getting an earful about Obamacare. The Messiah has shot his wad. He's now running behind Jimmy Carter's track record in the polls. Ouch.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 5, 2009 3:51 PM

Michelle can dice it, slice it, and serve it up with fries.

If you're so "informed" why keep bringing me up? Is It because YOU KNOW you're wrong, and also an admitted liar who is proven wrong constantly?

I won't even revisit this thread as it's fixing to roll off the page.

Spoken like a true coward!!

Posted by: Michelle at August 5, 2009 4:00 PM

Note the date and time: this is the high water mark of socialism in America. It's all downhill from here.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at August 5, 2009 4:25 PM