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Bachmann represents what little sanity remains in MinneUSSR. The heavy hand of the snake oil salesman leftists who've lied and cheated their way into power weighs heavy on what remains of the Repbublic. Is this really the kind of country you want Wellstone and Brandon, one where political spoils and curried favor with Democrat politicians decides whether mom & pop businesses survive?

REVOLUTION.

F*ck Obama.

No, this is exactly why socialism will never truly come to life in America. It goes against the very core of the American spirit.

I read that news article about a month ago and it troubled me. It also is worrisome that Obama intends to have some kind of government insurance program.

But I think the worst thing would be to have some kind of half democrat half republican compromise that brings in some of the socialist problems without being overtly socialist. In that case the problems could be argued over without any clear understanding, the pundits and the bloggers and the politicians and the economists would all have their own ideas about what was wrong, and argue it away and justify it in a million ways and all the people could then go buy their magazine or newspaper or cable, and get the opinion that caters to their own individual bias and the country would not be able to figure out what the hell was going on.

that actually kind of sounds like what's going on now with the health care debate. Nearly everyone seems to agree that we've got major problems with our health care system, but everyone has their own idea about what to do and what's caused it and on and on.

if we are about to get some kind of compromised half socialist health care system, and the American public can't even decide if they want it or not, or can't take the time to understand socialism and it's history, it would be better just to go all the way, completely nationalize the health care system. Then while we might not get the best health care, we would get a good lesson in why America stands for freedom.

Thanks a lot Democrats.

Nationalize health care so that we get a good lesson in why America stands for freedom.

Brandon, you continue to amaze me. Your logic is irrefutable. Perhaps we should nationalize everything so that we can get a good lesson in why America stands for freedom.

We'll definitely get a good lesson. That's for sure.

if we are about to get some kind of compromised half socialist health care system, and the American public can't even decide if they want it or not, or can't take the time to understand socialism and it's history, it would be better just to go all the way, completely nationalize the health care system.

Brandon

Please explain here, now, Brandon - so that we all understand socialism and it's history - please explain socialism and it's history so that we all understand it as well as you. Please. Explain it as you understand it. I'm actually very interested to know what you have to say about this, as is everyone here. Let's get your perspective on socialism and it's history.

Michele Bachmann won't be silenced! We need to stand behind her and support her. She knows the truth and is more than willing to stand up for the American people. She's doing her JOB people. Which is more than most in Washington, including Obama and his gangster administration. It's time to start saying ENOUGH!

Brandon's response started to sound so reasonable and sensible up until the last few lines when the aliens regained their control over him ... "the American public can't even decide if they want it or not, and can't take the time to understand socialism and it's history, it would be better just to go all the way, completely nationalize the health care system. Then while we might not get the best health care, we would get a good lesson in why America stands for freedom."

Brandon, your sunshine patriotism and defeatism is telling -- if you really believe the first part of what you said, I'm glad we had stonger souls than you around during the American Revolution and Hitler's attempt at world conquest. We can't give into tyranny just to teach fools in this country a lesson about freedom.

Now, now, ZMarshall, let's let Brandon explain socialism and it's history so that we all understand it as well as he does.

Please Brandon, this is your chance to shine. Teach us. Explain so that we understand too.

Minnesota has some of the worst and some of the best. Bachmann, Pawlenty, used to have Coleman, etc. On the other hand Stewart Smalley, Keith the mooscum Ellison, Mark Dayton, Paul Wellstone, etc. I love Bachmann. She is so goddamned good I could hump her leg. She almost lost her reelection bid because she claimed that some demorat politicians held unAmerican values, which is absolutely true. It isn't an insult its the goddamned truth! Marxism is unamerican and many of these pukes are open marxists. She, as she puts it, "calls it for what it is."

Brandon, I meant by asking you to explain socialism and it's history that I understand the wording of your statement and all the ramifications which it implies, one way or the other, about the person who wrote it. This is your chance ...

Yes, please explain socialism to all of us here. None of us are to bright obviously but I'm sure you can find some crayons and shiny things to keep us focused on your vast welspring of knowledge.

/sarc

The real PROBLEM is that there are far to many weak willed, illiterates like you Brandon who feign support "if only" this or that was done.

WE know what WORKS! We also KNOW what will not and has NEVER worked.

With all due respect, it's not just weak willed, illiterates, it's the public is just too lazy to stand up and be counted, or even worse, not to even have their own opinion.

It is so easy to be a liberal, just let scum like Obama, Franks, Dodd and the rest of the liberal elite, tell you what you believe. Being a liberal means never having to make a unpleasant decision. Never having to stand for anything.

Right Brandon?

Man, 1984 and Altas Shrugged might as well have been prophetic books. Either that, or instruction manuals to take over.

The Obama Administration, in contrast, makes Reconstruction period government look like a Golden Age of benevolence and wisdom.

The country is now being run by Black gangstas and their house-whites. I new this was coming years ago when young white males were running around acting like they were black. White people have become Elois.

The country is now being run by Black gangstas and their house-whites. I new this was coming years ago when young white males were running around acting like they were black. White people have become Elois.

Third straight day for negative index for chairman zero, at -2.

Congress has 18% approval rating.

Brandon's comment is interesting in that it is a formulation of modern totalitarian strategic thinking:

(1) Present a sensible premise, (2)Show a dilemma to be solved, (3) Propose a socialist solution only temporarily and for purposes of demonstrating how bad it may be, (4) Keep the solution.



That is, (1) Well look here, GM needs help, (2) The government either bails out GM or it goes under, (3)Nationalize GM but aw shucks, government really doesn't want to be in the business of running the auto industry, (4) Ha! We got GM....next?

Right out of the Hugo Chavez' manifesto.


Actually oldguy, we've always been Elois.

The pornocracy is here.

First, if you all think I'm going write a book on the history of socialism, you don't realize the character limitations here.

Second, if you don't understand why socialism is bad, go read Atlas Shrugged.

If the country gets some kind of government insurance program, and at the same time there are still private insurance companies it is likely to cause problems. It is proposed to make insurance affordable, and that means the government will have to undercut the cost of private insurance companies. In order to keep on par with the government rate, private insurance companies are going to have to outsource and get their plans manufactured in China or some third world country.

Also, when you get politicians running things, they often make decisions for political reasons, not for smart business reasons (i.e. the above video).

So in this scenario things will get crappier. But people already think things are getting crappier. You could imagine a million excuses given for the problems, a different explanation for every bias.

If we nationalized the insurance companies, hospitals, and doctors, the results would be very bad, and very clear. There could be no argument that this was the wrong thing to do. Then the increased infant mortality rate, the decreased life span and the great cost would remind people what's good about the free market. It would be clear lesson. This is obviously a hypothetical scenario that will never come to pass and was used as rhetorical device.

You think I'm really trying to trick you into voting for the democrat plan? If so, Atlas Shrugged is probably beyond your mental capability.

Wow, if you guys believe Michelle Bachmann is one of the best or "esteemed", you have bigger problems than were first diagnosed. She has more conspiracy theories than Alex Jones. And Black Helicopter, taking a shot at Paul Wellstone, really? Thats real classy.

The idea that you have bought into the Fox News/Michael Barone nonsense that the President is dictating what dealerships are closing is ludicrous. "The manufacturers have contractual agreements that dictate factors like location, display space, signage, and service options. Nevertheless, Chrysler and GM and other auto manufacturers must maintain a large, costly field force of trainers (to train technicians to fix cars), salespeople (to persuade dealers to buy more cars), and auditors (to verify claims for reimbursement). The more dealerships, the more go-betweens a car company needs to employ and the more money it has to shell out."

You have to understand that while one dealership may have a higher profit rate, Chrysler or GM may have a cheaper contract with another dealer in the area in which it only makes sense to hang onto the cheaper one. Most of you need to calm a bit before jumping the Bachmann Bandwagon, when she speaks everyone in the country becomes dumber.

ghost it doesn't matter if Bachmann believes in flying hamburglars, and the point isn't that obama has taken control of everything.

read this:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/201949

Not that even remotely expect a coherent response but I can't help wonder what you guys would have done with the GM ordeal.

a) Nothing, let em go under.
b) Loan them a blank check with no provisions (if they want to dole it out amongst the CEO's, that's there business).
c) Loan them the money with certain provisions.
d) Do as GWB did and funnel them enough money to make it through your term and then pass it on to the next administration.
e) Write in your own solution here.
d) Evade the question and just bash me because you hate liberals.

The Government is not behind the closings of dealerships. They are decisions made by the manufacturers. My dealership is four miles away,but just over 6 miles away is another Chrysler dealer with a smaller contract. Does it make sense to keep the one that 4 miles away? We have to recognize that both GM and Chrysler are juggling bad decisions, legacy costs, Union contracts and branding in order to survive. Tough choices had to be made.

Under Obama, the government has taken over 60% of General Motors. And the UAW Wing of the Democrat party owns 17.5%. (The workers control the means of production, in other words). And yet, they deny that any kind of socialist nationalization scheme has taken place.

GM should have been allowed to fail. There is huge overcapacity in the global auto-market. Some of its assets would have ended up being bought by other entities. (Saturn's purchase by Penske, for example.) Instead, what has happened is the union thugs of the UAW are now wards of the American taxpayer, by whom I mean, the Chinese moneylenders.

andy42302 said "...what you guys would have done with the GM ordeal"

Simple - let them declare bankruptcy. That would have cleared the deadwood that is still pulling them down and will continue to do so no matter how many billions of taxpayer dollars are thrown to them as life savers that won't work. It would also have the salubrious effect of keeping kleptocrats' hands off of a private business.

Google "creative destruction" for the proper economic references.

Wellstoned simply resents that the corruption of the Chicago Mafia running Washington is being challenged. At a minimum, there should be an investigation to determine if Democrat cronies were advantaged in closing decisions. There is nothing unreasonable in such an investigation. But Wellstoned opposes any investigation that might embarrass Dear Leader.

ZMarshall, you've got it right on my friend. She's one of the (very) few good picks here in the Peoples Republic of Minnesota.

I happen to be in the Betty McCommie district, to my chagrin. Then there's our response to Maxine Waters - Kommissar Klobuchar. Half the state works, the other half picks our pockets. I'm leaving in a couple years for greener pastures (and lower taxes).

Andy, GM should have gone down if it couldn't get it's act together. Do you remember the dot com and cell phone provider blowup. Their stocks took it in the ass but they were not bailed out. The strongest survived and that's how business is done.

The July 6 issue of SLIME magazine has a portait of Franklin Roosevelt on it with the caption "What Can Barack Obama Learn from FDR?"

Well, what CAN Duh Won learn from FDR?

Michelle Bachman is a true patriot. I like her. I wish she were in California. The crony culture is still alive and kicking in all facets of government. Liberals will not be satisfied until they run every single aspect of our society, nothing is ever enough for them.

Posted by: Brandon at July 2, 2009 7:57 AM

That's all I wanted to know. I was curious as to which way your statement cut. Nationalizing anything in order to teach people what freedom is would be a very ugly twisted thing.

Just how could a state like Minnesota have a person like Bachman who is absolutely top notch and then get a scum-sucking-piece-of-human garbage, waste-of-skin-and-air like Franken in the Senate?

"It goes something like this: President Obama, the Democratic Congress, and the federal government are evil. They already have too much power and want to take even more control over your life. They're out to take away your guns, liberty, freedom, paycheck, and perhaps your mother's apple pie! Worse yet, now they want to count you. Have they no shame?"

This is about where Michelle Bachmann and many Conservatives are these days. If you think things have been bad over the last six months, imagine had we done nothing. What would the rate of unemployment be? 19%, 21%? You have to come to the realization that this collapsing of the economy did not begin in January. It was well underway a few years back. Banking on Rep. Bachmann is probably not a good plan.

Every small recession that we've had, and there have been lots of them after years of gains and prosperity, could have been made much, much worse by doing the Obama thing. It is like watching somebody dump a 10,000 gallons of aviation fuel on a bonfire and see the flames get forty feet high and then have somebody say how lucky we were to know that the proper course of action was to try to dose the little bonfire with aviation fuel else it might have gotten a lot bigger.

When you have high unemployment, it might be that an actual idea that works is to promote manufacturing and trade. If instead you kick the living hell out of anybody who even thinks about creating a job and take their money and hand it to somebody who will spend it on material shipped in from overseas and you pay people to do meaningless-building-the-pyramid jobs there will be a lot less jobs. You ain't seen nothing yet. OUR WHOLE ECONOMY IS COMING APART!!

This is about where Michelle Bachmann and many Conservatives are these days. If you think things have been bad over the last six months, imagine had we done nothing. What would the rate of unemployment be? 19%, 21%? You have to come to the realization that this collapsing of the economy did not begin in January. It was well underway a few years back.

Posted by: Ghost of Wellstone at July 2, 2009 10:40 AM

Hey, anyone else listen to Rush Limbaugh this morning and what he said that Obama will say about the economy? Ghost of Wellpaid Whore has the Party line down pat. Good job, Ghost of Wellpaid Whore.

Ghost of Wellpaid Whore is in the loop.

As Humphrey Bogart said to Peter Lorre in Casablanca, you impress me.

They already have too much power and want to take even more control over your life.

True E.g., socialized health care, automobile fuel mandates, compensation caps, the hundreds of pages of new regulations in the cap and trade bill... on top of the tens of thousands of pages of existing federal regulations.

They're out to take away your guns...

True There's HR 45 for example. There's also the current lie being spread that 90% of guns used in Mexico come from the USA. Also, this week, the ATF began going door-to-door in Houston looking for guns to confiscate.

They're out to take away your freedom, paycheck,

The tax increases accomplish all three.

They're out to take away your your mother's apple pie!

True, if it contains trans-fats.

Worse yet, now they want to count you.

No, dumbass. They want to count people who aren't there, like the 81,000 people they just plain made up to pad Detroit's population. Further, they want to request a buttload of information that some of us regard as none of the census bureau's damn business... like the racial composition of people in the household, how many are on food stamps, how many have attended college, what your income is, what your "class of worker" is, how long does it take you to drive to work.

Since the Regime can fine and imprison you for refusing to answer, my suggestion is lie... lie your ass off. That data should be none of the government's business.

If you think things have been bad over the last six months, imagine had we done nothing. What would the rate of unemployment be? 19%, 21%?

Or maybe 5%, or 6%. No way to know. Bear in mind that to date, only 6% of the stimulus money has been spent. Two-thirds of it isn’t even authorized for spending until 2011.

Not all of us in an industry as recession-proof as whoring.

You have to come to the realization that this collapsing of the economy did not begin in January. It was well underway a few years back.

First, the recession was not “well underway a few years back.” That’s nonsense.

Second, you have to come to the realization that recessions historically only last 9-12 months. Obama has already prolonged this one, which by rights should be over, by introducing so much uncertainty into the nation. Everyone is sitting on his wallet because he doesn’t know what the Nubian Narcissist is going to do next. Bail out California? Nationalize pharma? Turn terrorists loose in the US? Abrogate some other contracts? Show up at a press conference with a parrot on his shoulder? Everyone is waiting to see what happens – including you (who knows? Obama might outlaw whores.). That’s why the economy is stagnant.

Chuck, Farmer and Snowsnake, I think you underestimate the economic condition as well as the impact of the auto industry going belly up. Unlike dot com, and other service providers, the domino effect would have been devastating. Unlike seasonable fluctuations in the market, home building was almost nonexistent, construction was at record low, and banks were losing their butts on mortgages.
When the "robust economy on solid ground" myth reared it's head, Toyota of Prinston IN, like everyone else, scaled back on production. When they did that, Dana Corp of Owensboro Ky closed it's doors as did Irving Die Cast. An Alcoa affiliate in Hawesville KY, laid off considerable, as did Toyotetsu Mid-America, Omico Plastics, and Waupaca Foundry Inc of Tell City IN. When these guys went down, there went your local skilled tradesman that depended on there shutdowns, supporting welding, fab, and machine shops, mom and pop diners, Joe Smuckatellie's hot dog stand, Bob's auto service, and the list goes on.
Had the government stood by and simply watched GM and Chrysler fall, it wouldn't have just hurt the union worker that you guys hate so bad. It would have hurt the steel industry, paint suppliers, and on and on.
Regardless of who you want to blame, or shield from blame, doing nothing could have been a lot worse than the Great Depression. But the super wealth did well during the Depression so from that perspective, I can understand why you might think that would be a good thing.

Hey Andy,

I am for creating manufacturing jobs and increasing trade. How does that translate to hate union workers? Obama is the one who has a complete and bottomless hatred of union workers. He wants to deprive them of any opportunity to sell their work as a bargaining unit to a free and thriving market and instead make them completely dependent on government and how well their leaders can suck on the teat and kiss ass for their jobs.

"Bachmann represents what little sanity remains in MinneUSSR"

ARE YOU F***ING KIDDING ME?

Had the government stood by and simply watched GM and Chrysler fall, it wouldn't have just hurt the union worker that you guys hate so bad. It would have hurt the steel industry, paint suppliers, and on and on.

And yet, you guys applaud when Cap and Trade will have the same effect.

Forty years of Democrat hostility to industry, and you guys still can't figure out why they would rather set up shop in another country.

I mean, if you guys were the least bit intellectually consistent, you'd've been happy to see GM go under. Think how much the carbon footprint would have been reduced if all those factories had to close, and the workers didn't have jobs to drive to.

And instead of bailing them out, you could have just given them "Green Jobs" as windmill polishers and community organizers.

How many liberals drive American cars anyway? None of the ones I know.

Andy I do realize what would have happened but how can incompetence in the managing of an industrial giant be rewarded? Ford started to reorganize earler than the other two and may come out of this looking good. Ford fired imcompetence and got concessions form the unions BEFORE things got out of hand. Also if you read Consumer Reports you'll find that Ford now equals or exceeds the quality of Honda and Toyota. The other two continued to make junk and that's what they should have become.

I grew up in Michigan, and loyalty to American car companies was part of my DNA. But I won't buy a car from a government-owned/union (i.e. mafia) operated company.

Wow, am I glad you guys are the minority! Anyone that thinks Bachman is sane really needs to spend some time in a rubber room.

She's kooky as Cocoa Puffs!

She's kooky? (I don't know.) Then why isn't she a Dem? She could hook up with Kucinich, McKinney, McDermott, Boxer, Murray, the list goes on and on. She'd fit right in if she's nuts.

I'm confused.

I didn't know very much about her so I did a search on her. Found out why the trolls call her a kook. The woman sees what's going on and voices her opinion - so of course she has to be destroyed. The Left has taken to calling her a kook and an extremest. Ridicule is a powerful weapon.

http://www.citypages.com/2009-05-27/news/a-michele-bachmann-comic-misadventure/

That link is to a hit piece in comic format. Interesting read. Look at what the woman actually said in the quotes in this comic and then look at how these statements are construed by the writer of the comic. It's all very anti-intellectual and geared to bring a knee-jerk reaction from the left.

Yeah, sure Michelle Bachmann's a kook... but the people who believe that the Earth is going to burn up and the polar bears are going extinct unless we all sacrifice at the altar of Gaia epitomize sanity.

Cocoa Puffs are good, man. It's also a good thing we're NOT in the minority, despite the apparent results of some recent elections.

Bachmann for president.

RedStateLiberal & Realist, yes we know about your DU playbook:

Palin = Bachmann = attractive beautiful and strong conservative women = we have nothing to compare in Democrap ranks = they are not RINO's and don't tow the liberal line = they are a threat to the One = they would insult Dear Leader = liberals must savage and slander them = call them insane and attack them personally = attack their families.

Are you going to photoshop and attack Bachmann's family next?

PALIN/BACHMANN 2012 for POTUS/VPOTUS - AN All Female, All Conservative, All Intelligent, All Attractive, All Feared Ticket

fuck the liberals

Not that even remotely expect a coherent response but I can't help wonder what you guys would have done with the GM ordeal. andy42302

Ok, I'll bite. Let me get my crayons out so maybee you can comprehend how things ACTUALLY work instead of the fantasyland portrayed by your childking.

a) Nothing, let em go under.

Enron, Worldcom, come to mind imediately. Both were huge corporations emplyoying thousands. Both colapsed, Billions were lost by investors. the economy survived.

b) Loan them a blank check with no provisions (if they want to dole it out amongst the CEO's, that's there business).

Crysler before Iacoca took over was in trouble and he got help from the govt. TO GAURANTEE loans in 1979, paid by PRIVATE loans costing taxpayers ZERO, Crysler survived for quite some time afterword. All Congress did was gaurantee the loans would be paid, MORON! So a blank check sure would have been a great option.

c) Loan them the money with certain provisions.

Hint NUMBER ONE of how little you know. ALL LOANS have provisions, interest, penalties, due dates, conditional requirements to qualify etc. ( C ) isn't even a serious question but your ignorance amuses me.

d) Do as GWB did and funnel them enough money to make it through your term and then pass it on to the next administration.

Interesting use of lies and misdirection there Andy. Bush NEVER "funneled" any money to banks, car companies, or insurance agencies. CONGRESS does ALL the funneling to their friends. The Citezenry was COMPLETELY oposed to ALL of the bailouts because unlike you most of us have a brain and use it to think with.

e) Write in your own solution here.

Gee how about we FOLLOW the law and allow the bankrupcy court to do what it is SUPPOSED to do in these cases. See Enron, Worldcom, the Airlines, the railroads, and many others. The "solution" is what you liberals dislike most because it gives power to citizens NOT government.

d) Evade the question and just bash me because you hate liberals.

Bash YOU? this from the losers who spent EIGHT years complaining about 4.5% unemployment? Oh surely you jest. Contrary to what you are programed to believe by your masters over at the DNC obambibot factory we DON'T HATE, we educate. You just lack the inteligence to understand anything other than the socialist utopia drivel your masters have taught you.

How was that for "evading" the idiotic question than anyone who knows anything about finance, buisness, or freedom could answer. It's unfortunate that you know so little about those KEY components of the maket which have given you the ability to come here and make an absolute fool of yourself.

Michelle... nice troll smash!

d) Do as GWB did and funnel them enough money to make it through your term and then pass it on to the next administration.

Andy, you really need to brush up on your high school civics. Congress - especially the Senate - control the purse strings, not the President. You know that, right?

It's one reason why Obama is having trouble closing Gitmo - because Congress won't allocate money to do so. Obama cannot do this himself; the Constitution puts that authority in the legislative branch.

No prizes for realizing that Democrats have controlled Congress since 2006. I'm not criticizing them, I'm just pointing out that all any President can do is ask Congress to legislate funds, and veto any bill he doesn't like.

That's it.

I will at least give you that Sarah Palin is mildly defendable, but Michelle Bachmann? Michelle, you may want to ask GWB for a couple crayons back...
"Enron, Worldcom, come to mind imediately"
Hmmm, weren't both of those major donors to the Bush campaign?
"Bush NEVER "funneled" any money"
Really? Do no bid contracts ring any bells? They have a odd Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, KSM, sound to them. President Obama is still using a few. Oh, and didn't Halliburton move to Saudi Arabia? Had a little something to do with taxes?
Most Consevative Republicans would rather blame President Obama for all of this misery instead of asking to not follow a number Bush policies that assisted in it. For that I fault him. Yet, he had the same will that Bush did to bailout the companies in order to let them get their shit together. Michelle, please find me a loan that does not have "provisions" as you described and will bank with them. Allowing your free market to run amuck, and bankers in bed with politicians of BOTH parties has landed us in this situation in the name of "freedom" is the biggest bunch of Goddamn bs I have ever heard.

VK, fabricate much? I have never said I support cap and trade nor have I promoted "green" anything. You guys seem to get caught up into making crap up as you go. It's as is the hatred of liberals overrides your rational thinking. Perhaps just stick with being a bobbing head cheer leader for Michelle and be a back up basher. You seem to do that well.

Whore,

Wasn't Madoff a major donor to the Obama campaign? And a whole bunch of unnamed foreigners? Hmmm?

No bid contracts to Halliburton started with...Clinton.

And no group that condescends to call McKinney and Kucinich (or even Wellstone or Franken /spit) one of its own can point fingers at anyone.

Michelle, thank you for your expected rant.

Andy, have you brushed up enough on civics to realize that the point above regarding who controls the pursestrings was...correct?

It's not the President - it's the Congress.

Most Consevative Republicans would rather blame President Obama for all of this misery instead of asking to not follow a number Bush policies that assisted in it.

Recessions come and go. This one was especially severe because of the leftists forcing Americans to loan to people who don't pay their debts. Simple as that.

If four years ago Franklin Raines (currently an Obama advisor), Bawney Fwank, and Chris Dodd had been marched into the courtyard and shot, as in a just world they would have been, everything would be fine now.

"marched into the courtyard and shot, as in a just world they would have been, everything would be fine now."

And to think Jay, over the last six months you are one of those bitching about Communism, Islam, and Socialists. Funny isn't it?
I also find it funny that it was your ilk who did not wish to count the monies spent on war and no bid contracts that were not included in budgets, but are suddenly concerned with the bailouts of American companies. The hypocrisy is striking!

There are necessary expenses, and unnecessary ones - like paying for whores, for instance.

I don't get your point about communism, Islam, and socialists. It - characteristically - makes no sense.

Jay, for one thing, show one dirty dollar that Dennis Kucinich or Paul Wellstone ever accepted...
And I am a whore? You would know huh? Ken Lay donated donated to GWB's campaign, and at 150 years we can see clearly that Maddoff got no favors.
If you don't get my reference, then maybe you should go back and read some archives here.

You're a whore. Heidi Fleiss is embarrassed to share your profession.

Man Casper Wellstoned you are very condescending. Do you have any freinds?

Ghost, not only did Ken Lay donate but Enron's corporate jet flew Bush to his inauguration in 2000.

Friends who don't pay you, that is.

Dave, you've gotta be more specific when dealing with a whore.

And Ghost donates his mouth to Axelrod. So what?

Ken Lay donated donated to GWB's campaign

And whose Justice Department brought him down, asshole?

V's comment just reminded me of another contribution the Whore makes to Axelrod.

Casper has a nasty habit of talking down to people. That is the first sign of insecurity.

Jay I don't think of Casper being a whore, they get paid. He's more like a tool...he gets used.

I think all the lefties that come here are a bunch of tools.

Dave, he admitted to getting paid. That's why he's here.

Less than Heidi, but she's trying to negotiate a higher rate. Maybe 31 pieces of silver; inflation, and all that.

VK, "And whose Justice Department brought him down, asshole?". You're surely not trying to assign credit to the Bush administration for nabbing, stopping, and procsecuting the Enron group are you?

No more than we give credit to the Nubian Narcissist for nicking Madoff.

Jay, who is paying this political whore they call Wellstoned?

He won't say, being too ashamed, which is understandable.

But about two weeks ago he did admit someone was paying him to sell out his country.

Let me clarify: I meant America.

I was making a presumption for which there is no evidence.

well then, on his blog he refers to himself as a progressive patriot.....bullshit!

Wellstone what are you?

As oxymorons go, "progressive patriot" is a classic. It's like "Nazi humanist" or "intelligent liberal."

Wellstone what are you?

Dave, we've already established that. Now we're just haggling over the price.

Wellstone is just a coward with no credibility. All his posts mean nothing so there for he is nothing. I used to have a little respect for Wellstone but now he is a gutless political hack that hates this country.

Dave, you're too kind. He'll say whatever he's paid to say. It's that simple.

Unlike liberals I at least try to see some value in a person but in wellstoned case I can't. He's just a well paid tool that happens to be a whore.

I'll bet Andy is just like wellstone....a paid whore.

For some reason Dave, I sense that you or your sidekick pom pom pals will simply invent the outcome of that bet, regardless of the facts.

It's a study in contrast, isn't it? Bush's Justice Department prosecuted Ken Lay, while Obama fires Insepctors General who might expose the corruption of his own cronies.

Michelle, you may want to ask GWB for a couple crayons back...

Considering his GPA is a cumulative score of 77 @ Yale I'm happy he loaned them to me. I would imagine your credentials are rather lackluster by comparison.

Hmmm, weren't Enron, Worldcom, both of those major donors to the Bush campaign?

LDDS WorldCom and MCI Communications was symptomatic of the Internet excesses of the late 1990s ( Clinton was the President then Remember? ) the conspiracy and fraud were first brought to light in 2002, Bernard Ebbers was convicted of fraud & conspiracy In 2005, by Bush's Justice Department. The accounting scandal that was revealed in October 2001 between Arthur Andersen LLP, based in Chicago and Enron caused its stock holders to lose $11 billion with total corporate assets of $63.4 billion, it was the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history until WorldCom declared bankruptcy in 2002. In the early 1990s the Congress passed legislation deregulating the sale of natural gas. ( You Remember BEFORE Newt took over ) Enron’s trading business adopted mark-to-market accounting the VERY SAME thing that killed Fannie and Freddie and caused the mess we currently are in!! Wanna GUESS who's idea that was Welstone? Lay was found guilty on May 25, 2006 by Guess again... Bush's Justice Department!!

Really? Do no bid contracts ring any bells? They have a odd Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, KSM, sound to them.

Aparently YOU have no idea how contracting works in the goverment do you? ALL CONTRACTS MUST MEET STRINGENT Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs. Schlumberger(French) is its closest competitor followed by Weatherford International,(American) Tesco Corporation (Canadian)and Baker Hughes(American) So it's pretty aparent that THE LARGEST MOST CAPABLE company was picked IDIOT! I guess you would have rather used the 2nd best foreign company rather than use an American company. You remeber the French right? The ones who REFUSED to help us in Iraq!

Oh, and didn't Halliburton move to Saudi Arabia? Had a little something to do with taxes?

Do you REALLY need me to answer this? Halliburton is based in 1401 McKinney Street in Downtown Houston, Texas, in the United States with international operations in more than 70 countries
Dummy. THAT'S what I N T E R N A T I O N A L means.

The Corporate tax rate in Saudi Arabia is 20%-85% and in America it's 15-39% (federal) 0-12% (state); But YOU knew that right Or did you just really want to show off your ignorance?

Most Consevative Republicans would rather blame President Obama for all of this misery instead of asking to not follow a number Bush policies that assisted in it.

Feel free to point out WHICH Bush polocies Caused this mess. Was it lowering taxes which is proven to INCREASE revenue? Was it the First TARP, you know the one OBAMA COPIED and QUADRUPLED? Was it Adopting a surge in Afganistan Like Bush did in Iraq? Is it Odumbo's reversal on closing Gitmo? Ohhh please tell all of us!!

For that I fault him. Yet, he had the same will that Bush did to bailout the companies in order to let them get their shit together.

You do know it was Paulson and the Democrats that WROTE the first TARP bill right? You can't possibly be that uniformed, oh that's right you're a liberal so you are never informed.

Michelle, please find me a loan that does not have "provisions" as you described and will bank with them.

Oh THAT'S to easy, just call Barney Frank, Criss Dodd, Franklin Rains, Jamie Gorelick, or any of the other Dems who ran Fannie and Freddie into the ground and tell them you want in on the Comunity Reinvesment Act.

Allowing your free market to run amuck, and bankers in bed with politicians of BOTH parties has landed us in this situation in the name of "freedom" is the biggest bunch of Goddamn bs I have ever heard.

I'm sorry I confused with so much evidence and facts. Actual intelligence has that kinda effect on weak minded trolls like you. The "market" hasn't been FREE since FDR and his failed stalinist policies of the 30's were started which Odumbo and the dimwits who took charge in 2006 (you remember when unemployment was 4.5% ) have been trying to FORCE on the rest of us.

Perhaps just stick with being a bobbing head cheer leader for Michelle and be a back up basher. You seem to do that well.

So an inteligent guy say's something nice to me and SUDDENLY he's a cheerleader? Exactly what color are your Pom Pom's Andy.... Comunist Red?

Michelle, thank you for your expected rant.

No Andy, thank you for being completely unable to effectively rebeff the highlight of your lack of kindigarden level knowledge. As usual for a liberal, you're all hat and no cattle. Feel free to give me more opportunities to decimate your already low self esteem.

It's FUN!!

Michelle, V The K responded directly to my quote about the GM ramifications with "And yet, you guys applaud when Cap and Trade will have the same effect." We'll I've never expressed my opinion of cap and trade so this is just a silly chicken shit comment because he can't confront the argument without finding some diversion to blame me or simply invent one if none exist.
And then you do basically do the same. Instead of an intelligent response, you create a diatribe, a long winded rant and something you've admitted as fun and an opportunity to decimate me.
Now you come back and praise his intelligence.

VK, if you have any knowledge of Enron, you know that the company ran itself to failure. J.P. Morgan, Chase, Citibank were actually accomplices, making huge fees with short term loans to keep an imaginary business afloat. Enron was borrowing from Peter (Morgan) to pay Paul (Chase). The banks knew the books were cooked but the fees were too enticing so they kept them going until it became too risky. When Enron's credit was cut off, they collapsed. This left investors and employees with nothing. The law took its course. The Bush Admin had nothing to do with shutting Enron down, or pressing charges.
The only logic I can conclude from your "Bush's Justice Department prosecuted Ken Lay" comment is that maybe we should thank Bush for not pardoning Lay like he did Libby---who was convicted of the same thing Clinton did.
I don't approve of Obama firing the Inspector Generals and believe that should be investigated. But, that's a non sequitur. When you have a weak argument, you always want to fire back with some shortcoming of your opponent, something to take the eye off the ball of the discussion.
What I find so amusing is that you actually think these diversions gives you a win in the discussion. You act as if your kibitzing games gives you credibility and intellect.
And of course, then comes the spin. Michelle turns the "pom pom" accusation towards me (even tho I don't team up with anyone here) and then invokes the "Comunist" (sic) theory in order to once again, describe me as something she has no knowledge of. And you guys think this makes you intelligent?

I too am laughing but it's not with you.

Andy

Hyenas laugh too. Nobody has ever known at what. And I for one have never cared to know. But I imagine I could follow a hyena's logic and understanding of the world and the way it works long before I could ever hope to understand yours. I am sure a hyena's logic goes along the same line as a dog's--if you can't screw it, and you can't eat it, pee on it. Come to think of it, maybe I can figure out your logic.

Michelle, I would say well done, but then I find your cut and paste jobs from Answers and Wiki.
"Aparently YOU have no idea how contracting works in the goverment do you?"
When these contracts were handed out, the GOP had control of the White House,and both Houses,and you conveniently forget the ties between the businesses who received contracts and their relationships with the Bush Crime Family. Does Joe Albaugh ring any bells for you?

Further, you can keep blinders on all you want, but the Bush tax cuts did not create jobs or provide stability for the middle class. The excessive greed grew more excessive, which is also being repeated in the Obama bailouts in which CEOs are demonstrating the same behavior. If we are to bear witness to a stable economy, we must see the Reagan tax cuts repealed and a return to tariffs on foreign companies.

I will give give you the Fox talking points here, you have them down. Blaming the mess we have on the Democratic Party alone is shortsighted and a narrow minded political hatchet job. I have said on this site before, there is plenty of blame to go around,yet the posters here think the mess began Jan. 20th 2009. BTW Michelle, research does not mean cut and paste, it requires work, and more of your own input besides your snarky and childish insults.

Snow, hyenas run in packs, do they not. They gang up and attack their prey, much like wolves. Accordingly, I'm sure the others appreciate your contribution.

I know that you don't understand my thinking but my point is that folks here refuse to. They refuse to engage in any type of rationale debate. When challenged on an issue, they use diversions, distractions, go into attack mode, and simply create their own argument out of thin air. They impute opinions of me that I don't necessarily have, as VK did with my stand on the economy and cap and trade. Jay Guevara deduced that I'm racist towards African Americans because I don't approve of premarital sex. I've been accused many times of supporting abortion despite the fact that I'm an avid pro-life supporter.

The problem with many folks here is that they misconstrue ideology as a right or wrong. It's as if anyone outside their glass house is an enemy. They refuse to accept anything that counters any though process they have. When faced with facts or what might challenge them, they resort to insults, spin, and diversions. I guess that's all they have.

If we are to bear witness to a stable economy, we must see the Reagan tax cuts repealed and a return to tariffs on foreign companies.

Bear witness?? You mean like Whittaker Chambers, whom I hold in high regard for outgrowing communism and kicking you communists in the slats?

Reagan’s tax cuts caused the prosperity that followed, extending into the Clinton Administration.

Tariffs on foreign companies? WTF? What happened to the international mass movement crap? Your commissar is going to send you for re-education, comrade.

This is laughable. No one with any grasp of economics...no, make that...No grownup of sound mind wants a return to the Smoot-Hawley Act. The very notion is laughable. Hell, even Paul Krugman – whom you doubtless idolize for non-economic reasons – opposes this. You need to start reading a higher caliber of comic book.

I will give give you the Fox talking points here, you have them down.

That’s kind of you to say, Whore. And for our part, you have the CPUSA’s talking points down, too.

Blaming the mess we have on the Democratic Party alone is shortsighted and a narrow minded political hatchet job.

The current problem is 100% generated by the Democratic Party, as is extension of the recession from this point on. Their obstinate resistance to reining in Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae – in the name of “affordable housing,” which should sound familiar to you – led to the housing bubble. Why the hell did Fannie and Freddie make their largest donations to...Dodd and Obama?

From Wiki:

In accordance with the mission of Fannie Mae to enable home ownership by a greater proportion of the population, Franklin Raines, while Chairman and CEO, began a pilot program in 1999 to issue bank loans to individuals with low to moderate income, and to ease credit requirements on loans that Fannie Mae purchased from banks. Raines promoted the program saying that it would allow consumers who were "a notch below what our current underwriting has required" to get home loans. The move was intended in part to increase the number of minority and low income home owners.

Fannie and Freddie sliced and diced these toxic mortgages into principal and interest tranches, then sold them to other institutions to hedge the (staggering) risk. Then, Fannie and Freddie stupidly bought the very same toxic crap they’d just packaged, thereby re-concentrating the risk in...them.

More from Wiki:

In the New York Times John Steele Gordon wrote an opinion criticizing Raines' contribution to the 2008 financial crisis caused by the failure of Fannie Mae. "He cooked the books at Fannie to increase his compensation (more than $90 million)."

And where is this miscreant now, you ask? This man - who was rung up for an accounting scandal and fined – is now an advisor to Obama.

So don’t tell me the Democrats aren’t responsible for this mess. You bet your scruffy ass they are.

Oh, almost forgot. Whore.

This Haliburton thing is such a truck-load of sewage dumped by the idiot liberals: Haliburton was selected largely due to speed of delivery. The company was previously entrenched in the Gulf and able to make a large number of variable deliveries to military installations and mobile units.

Single-source or "no-bid" contracts are perfectly legal and as Michelle points out, have to meet a number of stringent requirements.

The liberal sewage on this was excreted only because of Cheny's connections to the company.
However, liberals, you may want to check your parent's portfolios (the symbol is HAL, idiots): a lot of them could have held shares in the heyday, making enough money to buy your Cheetos-stained computers.

The Bush Admin had nothing to do with shutting Enron down, or pressing charges.

The only logic I can conclude from your "Bush's Justice Department prosecuted Ken Lay" comment is that maybe we should thank Bush for not pardoning Lay like he did Libby---who was convicted of the same thing Clinton did.

That was Federal prosecution. Federal prosecution is done by the Federal Justice Department. The Federal Justice Department is a part of the administration and is an executive department with the Attorney General at it's head. This is why it is perfectly permissible to say that the Bush administration was the administration which prosecuted Enron.

Posted by: Michelle at July 3, 2009 3:08 AM

Posted by: Michelle at July 3, 2009 3:24 AM

I think I'm in love.

You destroyed the idiot Michelle, and it's comeback is that your response is not intelligent - is a longwinded rant. Don't waste too much time playing with this idiot.

Oops, forgot to give you proper credit, idiot.

The Bush Admin had nothing to do with shutting Enron down, or pressing charges.

The only logic I can conclude from your "Bush's Justice Department prosecuted Ken Lay" comment is that maybe we should thank Bush for not pardoning Lay like he did Libby---who was convicted of the same thing Clinton did.

Posted by: andy42302 at July 3, 2009 7:29 AM

That was Federal prosecution. Federal prosecution is done by the Federal Justice Department. The Federal Justice Department is a part of the administration and is an executive department with the Attorney General at it's head. This is why it is perfectly permissible to say that the Bush administration was the administration which prosecuted Enron.

Posted by: Michelle at July 3, 2009 3:08 AM

Posted by: Michelle at July 3, 2009 3:24 AM

I think I'm in love.

You destroyed the idiot Michelle, and it's comeback is that your response is not intelligent - is a longwinded rant. Don't waste too much time playing with this idiot.

Andy and Welstone feel free to point to ANYTHING I've posted and show any factual errors.

You won't and you can't because it's easily verifiable. Nether of you have offered anything but wishy washy "the other guys did it to" which WE all know.

The Republicans and the Democrats both contributed BUT the R's TRIED to keep Fannie and Freddie from gong under the D's PREVENTED it! YOU know it and so does EVERYBODY else.

My "diatribe" is nothing but a rebuttal point by point of your comments DIRECTED to ME!!

If you don't like our kibitzing games here then go back to DU or Kos and remain uniformed and uninteligent.

At least we have the courage to call it like it is. I would almost bet anyone here has no problem pointing out any failures of the R's, the POINT is the D's have been running the show since 2006 and THAT'S when things started going downhill.

If either of you were honest you would admit it!

Ghost of Wellstone Shut the F**K up no one gives a rat's what you think, or for that matter if you Alive or dead. Actually most would have a party if we knew you assumed room temprature!

Ghost you are not credible.

You are a fake and a sham.

Michelle, things have been rough for much longer than 2006. Take any major city in both red and blue states and they will tell you that. I find it ironic that so many of you are unhinged over spending nowadays, but were all about cheerleading when we starting wars we had no business starting. So, let me guess, it's ok for a Republican to borrow from the Chinese, but when a Democrat does it...look out! The fact of the matter is, and while many of you won't like it, most true progressives do not believe the Democratic Party is liberal enough. Much like Conservatives wish the Republicans were further to the right.

Further, Michelle, if you are going to cut and paste what you view is fact, at least quote the damn thing. I picked a sentence at random and it took me to a dozen articles verbatim.

Anon, add something to the debate next time. At least Michelle, Jay, V the K, and sometimes Dave offer some civility and put forth the effort,and I thank them for hearty debates. "Actually most would have a party if we knew you assumed room temprature!" Don't forget the alcohol, assuming you are old enough?

Another audacious assumption Michelle. I never go to DU. They are almost as unhinged as this site. You won't find a post by me at D Kos either. But don't let that slow down the fabrication of anything that pops in your head. Also, I'm unsure why you would think I don't understand my options as where I can post or visit. With that said, if my input is not welcome here, I have no problems seeing myself to the door. I'd prefer for that to come from someone a bit more authoritative and with more credibility than say, you.

Kevin R, Enron ran it's own course to its own destruction. It was a cut and dry case for the jury. To assign credit for the Bush Admin, as if they stopped these outlaws in their tracks, is utter nonsense.

I'm sure however, that Michell et al appreciates you showing up with your pom poms aflutter.

Well said Andy, That said, it should be noted that it was Phil Gramm who was swimming in Enron donations, and his Friedman approach to the economy has led to the mess we are currently weathering. I will try this again, there is plenty of blame to go around, but eagerly jumping in on the circle jerk of conspiracy theories is pointless. Michelle, if wish to understand facts, I might suggest Thom Hartmann's "Screwed" for homework, and maybe Thomas Sowell's writings. The latter, while I don't agree with, is well researched with right-wing spin.

The Bush Admin had nothing to do with shutting Enron down, or pressing charges.

Posted by: andy42302 at July 3, 2009 12:14 PM

Me: Oh yes it did. That was Federal prosecution.

Kevin R, Enron ran it's own course to its own destruction. It was a cut and dry case for the jury. To assign credit for the Bush Admin, as if they stopped these outlaws in their tracks, is utter nonsense.

Posted by: andy42302 at July 3, 2009 7:29 AM

Now the troll dissembles. First it presents an out and out lie and then when called on it, it dissembles.

What a very ugly piece of work this troll is.

But, that's all part of its job.

Keven, get a grip man. Your grasping is pathetic.
The law enforcement and judicial proceedings have been in place for many years, with or without Bush. When someone breaks the law and gets caught, they stand trial. It isn't an issue of who's in the White House. From what you're saying, it's far to say that Obama's responsible for nabbing Madoff? That too is utter nonsense.

I have no clue as to your reference of "disassemble". My two statement you copied and pasted say the same thing. Enron hung themselves, not GWB.

Michelle, things have been rough for much longer than 2006.

Really? Was 4.5% unemplyment nationally that "rough" on you? Were those lower taxes stressing you out THAT much? Hmmm, it must have been the market being around 14000 that was causing your misery.

Take any major city in both red and blue states and they will tell you that.

I'm in Texas and we have a buget surplus here of around 9 Billion and my property taxes just went down so feel free to point out WHICH cities/states were having such a "rough" time under Bush. You might discover that ALL of them are run by Liberals!!

I find it ironic that so many of you are unhinged over spending nowadays, but were all about cheerleading when we starting wars we had no business starting.

You do know that DEFENCE is authorized specifically in the constitution right? Oh and I HATED the over spending Bush did. Since Odumbo helped author the first TARP and voted ( YES ) to pass it, then QUADRUPLED the previous spending it's pretty obvious I wouldn't like it. It's called consistancy, you should try it some time.

So, let me guess, it's ok for a Republican to borrow from the Chinese, but when a Democrat does it...look out!

NOPE! It's not ok for EITHER party to do it. If we could drill our own oil, build our own refineries, build Nuclear plants, and give companies a reason to not outsource we would have NO NEED to borrow money from anyone. I realize YOU want us to go broke and live in mud hut's but I kinda like my hairdryer and my curling iron.

The fact of the matter is, and while many of you won't like it, most true progressives do not believe the Democratic Party is liberal enough.

You mean SOCIALIST enough. It's not a question of "like it" it's the fact of "WE KNOW" what the liberals actually want yet they won't go to places where that idiocy is already in place.

Much like Conservatives wish the Republicans were further to the right.

Not really, we just would like the RINO's to leave our party and admit they are closet socialists.

Further, Michelle, if you are going to cut and paste what you view is fact, at least quote the damn thing. I picked a sentence at random and it took me to a dozen articles verbatim.

So "cut and paste" is no longer allowed? When did that get passed? Oh and just a little FYI cutting and pasting FACTS don't degrade them or make them less acurat or true. I realize you're not very brigt but "cutting and pasting" is QUOTING moron.

At least Michelle, Jay, V the K, and sometimes Dave offer some civility and put forth the effort,and I thank them for hearty debates.

Thank you! While I enjoy smashing your fantasy bubble, and COMPLETELY disagree with you, I will try to keep it mostly civil on occasion, once in a while, on thursday, after 3, in a leap year.

I think I'm in love.

Have ya seen my shoe bill??

You destroyed the idiot Michelle, and it's comeback is that your response is not intelligent - is a longwinded rant.

Is it warm in here or is it just me??

Don't waste too much time playing with this idiot. Posted by: Kevin R at July 3, 2009 11:08 AM

Well he can't read, is incoherrent, doesn't know history, has never heard of the constitution, and is a comunist sympathiser but I'm going to resever judgement on his inteligence for a little bit.

"Well he can't read, is incoherrent (sic), doesn't know history, has never heard of the constitution (sic), and is a comunist (sic) sympathiser (sic) but I'm going to resever (sic) judgement (sic) on his inteligence (sic) for a little bit."

Late afternoon on a holiday weekend?

I'm interested in knowing where you acquired your knowledge of my educational background, particularly in history and The Constitution. Also, please provide some documentation for your claim of me being a communist sympathizer. Again, you simply create your own argument out of thin air and claim victory for winning the argument that you manufactured.

I'm interested in knowing where you acquired your knowledge of my educational background, particularly in history and The Constitution.

Well that's easy, I just followed the liberal playbook on page 421.

Also, please provide some documentation for your claim of me being a communist sympathizer.

I will as soon as you "provide some documentation " that you are not. Until you can prove you're not a communist everyone will know you are. Remember YOU called me "nut's" for expecting any proof before so I guess that makes you a nutter for expecting me to provide any.... Just following the standard YOU set!

Again, you simply create your own argument out of thin air and claim victory for winning the argument that you manufactured.

I'm just doing what ALL liberals do sweetie. What's the matter, you don't like your liberal playbook methods when they get used on you?

Oh and you still haven't managed to disprove ANYTHING I've said thusfar... Wanna try again or are you starting to realize how unable you are to keep up with someone smarter than you.

Whoa! hang up the phone up Andy. You just got owned.

Try: "silence whore...wear this burka."

Maybe that'll work for you.

idiot.

I just saw Andy get beat up by a girl.

Nice body slam Michelle.

What you've demonstrated in your response Michelle or Jeff, or whoever it is that you choose to be today, is that you're a prejudice coward with no rational rebuttal.

Your liberal playbook on page 421 determines my educational background? Fascinating!

So, until I "provide some documentation " that I am not whatever you decide I am, I'm that? Indeed interesting! So, I'm a communist sympathizer until I provide you with documentation that I'm not AND THEN, and only then, you will provide documentation that I really am? Man, you got it all figured don't you? So by you logic, if you decide I'm, say, a rabbit, I'm a rabbit, based on your pending documentation that you will provide only after I provide documentation that I'm not a rabbit? Oh, but this is a standard that I supposedly set? And I suppose that it's only reasonable to assume that requesting proof that I set said standards are contingent on me somehow providing proof that I did no such thing? And then of course you're setting on some kind of magical proof that I did? Gotcha.

Ok, if you're "just doing what ALL liberals do sweetie" by concocting imaginary arguments (from your own admission) perhaps you should break away from this monitor obsession you have. Maybe try strolling just out the door the 1st day or 2 in hopes to progress all the way to the street in a week or so.

I do want to thank you for confirming my every accusation toward reasonable debate on Moonbattery. I'll concede that I'm far from as smart as you are and I certainly pray to never obtain your level of intelligence.

And V The K, you seriously endorse this clown?

And what is Obama Andy? You seriously endorsed that clown.

I have also notice Andy, that you and the rest of the trolls that come here like to put on this pseudo intelligence when your ass gets smacked around especially by a girl smarter than you. It's always about "reasonable debate" when you take a thrashing. Maybe you should spend some time updating your blog rather than getting dusted by Michelle. You are way behind the times there.....wait a minute, I forget, that's how you SOCIALST liberals operate.

Ok, so Dave and Fiberal confirms that it's justifiable to make rebuttals base on an imaginary play book? And, slanderous attracts as well as making up your own facts are fine unless the person you're debating can prove otherwise. So, if a liberal and a conservative are discussing something, the conservative can make any outrageous statement they like and it's true until the liberal can prove differently? Absolutely amazing. I knew you guys weren't the sharpest knife in the drawer but I really didn't expect for you to come right out and openly blow your cover. And you guys pride yourselves on intelligence.

You sure are defending this pretty hard Andy which leaves me to believe that you are what you are. Keep on showing those colors Andy.

The hole you are digging is getting deeper and deeper.

It's best for you to shut up.

Dave, what's a "girl" got to do with it? Michelle admitted that she just made that crap up. It came from an imaginary play book on an imaginary page. And you're trying to say I got smacked down. Well, maybe I did. I had no idea I was debating someone that was lost in wonderland. I can't debate someone that creates fairy tales as they go, only to be true until I can somehow provide documentation that their fairy tale is only in their head.

Thank's Fiberal & Dave.

I do believe the correct term is 500lb Mark 82 gravity bomb though, it could be a J.D.A.M possibly buy why quibble....

Hugg's!!

Dave, I have no control over what you choose to believe or not to.

"It's best for you to shut up."

This is just too funny.

Michelle; "Thank's Fiberal & Dave."

This reminds me of those sea animals, maybe seals or otters or something that stand side by side clapping their fins together and in unison going "ork ork ork"

Pom Poms?

You sure are spending a lot of time defending yourself, Andy. Trying to convince people what you are not? HMMMMMMMM, Obama does the same thing.

Showing those colors even more Andy!!!

What's a girl got to do with it you ask?

I just questioned you manhood.

Your last post sounds like it came from a college freshman.

Go update your site and let the grown ups talk.

As the great W.C. Fields would say, "Go away kid ya botha meee".

You are welcome Michelle. Andy is just another condescending socialist liberal.

Why would my manhood be in question when talking politics (or at least trying to when not distracted with her totoland looney tunes distractions)?

Because men aren't sheeple Andy. Like I said you sound like a college boy.

Why is Michelle distracting you? If it's not true what she says then why would it distract you Andy?

Need some help with that shovel young man?

Anyone see a pattern here besides me?

I'm not distracted Dave. I'm just surprised that you guy actually came out and admitted that you simply fabricate your arguments and make up whatever accusations you like when you're on the losing end. I overestimated your intelligence.

No you didn't. I call it like I see it. You need to go read your last post Andy, you just contradicted yourself.

Deeper and deeper he digs that hole.

What are you trying to win here Andy? Hearts and minds? LOL!!!

What you've demonstrated in your response Michelle or Jeff, or whoever it is that you choose to be today, is that you're a prejudice coward with no rational rebuttal.

So this is what you consider a "rational rebuttal" to someone smarter?

VK, fabricate much?

You guys seem to get caught up into making crap up as you go.

Perhaps just stick with being a bobbing head cheer leader for Michelle and be a back up basher.

Michelle, thank you for your expected rant.

For some reason Dave, I sense that you or your sidekick pom pom pals will simply invent the outcome of that bet, regardless of the facts.

This is just a silly chicken shit comment because he can't confront the argument without finding some diversion to blame me or simply invent one if none exist. And then you do basically do the same.

Instead of an intelligent response, you create a diatribe, a long winded rant and something you've admitted as fun and an opportunity to decimate me. Now you come back and praise his intelligence.

You act as if your kibitzing games gives you credibility and intellect.

But don't let that slow down the fabrication of anything that pops in your head.

Fascinating!

I picked out a few more of your shining examples of brilliance. WOW! Those were an impressive way to answer finacial questions, remember THAT was the topic originally?

So by your logic, if you decide I'm, say, a rabbit, I'm a rabbit, based on your pending documentation that you will provide only after I provide documentation that I'm not a rabbit?

Based on the previous examples of YOUR "rational rebuttals" it's pretty aparent you ARE a rabiit, who just happens to be sourounded by wolves.

Oh, but this is a standard that I supposedly set?

Considering you STILL have'nt disproven ANYTHING I've stated I felt that was very apparent to you. Are you really THAT clueless?

And I suppose that it's only reasonable to assume that requesting proof that I set said standards are contingent on me somehow providing proof that I did no such thing?

Nice word game, definately inventive but still not a very good example that ANYTHING I've said is untrue of false.

Ok, if you're "just doing what ALL liberals do sweetie" by concocting imaginary arguments (from your own admission) perhaps you should break away from this monitor obsession you have.

I only admited to following the example and rules set fourth by liberals. You posed the original argument remember. Besides what's wrong with having a monitor obsession? It is a holiday weekend.

I do want to thank you for confirming my every accusation toward reasonable debate on Moonbattery.

Well considering the ONLY debate you seem to be having is weather or not some people here have "fabricated" things that "facinate" you with "chicken shit" comments made in the form of "long winded rants" while everyone is waving "Pom Pom's" during their "diatribe" with YOU!

I'll concede that I'm far from as smart as you are and I certainly pray to never obtain your level of intelligence.

Based solely on you inability to disprove or provide anything other than "some diversion " to take the focus off you NEVER rebutting me I'm not very worried about you ever becoming very smart that's for sure.

I'm not trying to win anything Dave. You seem to be the one having a problem with it.

Michelle doesn't distract me so maybe I should have added the word "attempt" to distract. The point is, she freely admitted that she made things up and has nothing to support it. You endorsed her on that. That doesn't bother me at all. Again, I'm not trying to win anything. I've already won. And you're the one that seems to have the problem with it.

Eeeeasy Michelle you might distract him again.

What are you trying to win Andy?

I'm drooling with curiosity!

Michelle or Jeff or whoever you want to be today, you've admitted that you use an imaginary playbook to label me anyway you like.
You've admitted that you can make up whatever you like and it's true until proven otherwise.
You admitted that you create your own arguments out of thin air.
That's good enough for me.
I didn't think you'd be so naive but thanks.

Read your last post Andy you did it again.

You have got to be a college boy.

Stop contradicting yourself because it make you look like a dumb ass.

Michelle or Jeff or whoever you want to be today, you've admitted that you use an imaginary playbook to label me anyway you like.

You can't read very well can you? I was VERY clear in stating I was using your playbook. You know the one Dan Rather used to "make up" charges against Bush, The one Genine Garafalo used when referncing the Tea Parties, the same one used to claim Palin's son Trig wasn't her's. So it may not be in print anywhere BUT it sure gets used quite often.. "to make up whatever liberals like"

Oh and Who's Jeff?

You've admitted that you can make up whatever you like and it's true until proven otherwise.

NO, just LIBERALS do that, I posted verifiable data that can be easily referenced. SO FAR you have posted NADA!

You admitted that you create your own arguments out of thin air.

Again with more liberal distortion of reality. Further proof that you are EXACTLY what I described you as.

That's good enough for me. I didn't think you'd be so naive but thanks.

Well considering that YOU can't even remember what you've said, written, or claimed, I'm not the one who apears naive but you liberals tend to be rather slow so I'll put up with it.... FOR NOW.

Deeper and deeper, Andy. Hell at this rate you might get to China before dawn.

Andy, do you need a teleprompter?

I'm perfectly aware of what I've said and what you've said. It's all here on black, blue, and white.

"I posted verifiable data". Verify that I'm a communist sympathizer. Why do I need to prove I'm not when you can prove I am. Makes no sense.

Doesn't take long for Rah Rah Dave does it? LOL, gotta love the clowns.

LOL!!! I love they way you react...kinda like Obama except even more idiotic.

I'm having a blast college boy!!!!

Go team go!!!! RAH RAH RAH!!!

Hey I like that Andy...RAH RAH DAVE. Thanks!

Andy your post are contradictory liberal bullshit.

RAH RAH!!!!!

Andy First you said:

When you have a weak argument, you always want to fire back with some shortcoming of your opponent, something to take the eye off the ball of the discussion.

Andy Then you said:

But don't let that slow down the fabrication of anything that pops in your head. I'd prefer for that to come from someone a bit more authoritative and with more credibility than say, you.

Andy First you said:

Again, you simply create your own argument out of thin air and claim victory for winning the argument that you manufactured.

Andy Then you said:

I do want to thank you for confirming my every accusation toward reasonable debate on Moonbattery.

I knew you guys weren't the sharpest knife in the drawer but I really didn't expect for you to come right out and openly blow your cover.

Andy First you said:

Perhaps just stick with being a bobbing head cheer leader for Michelle

Michelle, thank you for your expected rant.

I sense that you or your sidekick pom pom pals will simply invent the outcome of that bet, regardless of the facts.

Michelle, V The K responded directly to my quote

Michelle turns the "pom pom" accusation towards me

Another audacious assumption Michelle.

I'm sure however, that Michelle et al appreciates you showing up with your pom poms aflutter.

Michelle, if wish to understand facts

Again, you simply create your own argument out of thin air

What you've demonstrated in your response Michelle

Michelle admitted that she just made that crap up.

This reminds me of those sea animals, maybe seals or otters or something that stand side by side clapping their fins together

or at least trying to when not distracted with her totoland looney tunes distractions

Michelle or Jeff or whoever you want to be today

Andy Then you said:

I'm not distracted Dave.

Michelle doesn't distract me so maybe I should have added the word "attempt" to distract.

You sure mention me in A LOT of responses to other people when I don't distract you very much...

You sure seem to follow the liberal playbook really closely to act like it doesn't exist...

Do you even have any clue how ridiculous you sound?

Goatse of Wellstone at July 3, 2009 12:11 PM- "The fact of the matter is, and while many of you won't like it, most true progressives do not believe the Democratic Party is liberal enough."

Not news, comrade. Despite The Socialist International directing the Democrats, the disappointment is quite evident. The fact of the matter is, it is no surprise that most true socialists do not believe that the Democrats are communist enough. "True progressives" thought that, by now, it would be all fist pumping and red banners. Wicked looking berets and bandoliers. Seizing factories and frog marching capitalist pigs... That the manifestation of ejaculation was going to be a bad-ass Chocolate Che. But instead, The mack daddy of the Revolution is looking more like just another 3rd Way, Transnational Progressive Fabian, in a business suit... but to THE EXTREME, dawg! Have patience comrade, overthrowing evil white western nations is best achieved with guile. The robbers-of-happiness will meet their shallow graves soon enough. Remember- briefcases first, bayonets later.

, which legislates for the CPUSA and the SP, yet "most true progressives do not believe the Democrat party is liberal enough". Announcing that most true socialists do not think the Democrats are communist enough, is not exactly a revelation.

I'm back from work now.

Keven, get a grip man. Your grasping is pathetic.

The law enforcement and judicial proceedings have been in place for many years, with or without Bush. When someone breaks the law and gets caught, they stand trial. It isn't an issue of who's in the White House. From what you're saying, it's far to say that Obama's responsible for nabbing Madoff? That too is utter nonsense.

I have no clue as to your reference of "disassemble". My two statement you copied and pasted say the same thing. Enron hung themselves, not GWB.

Posted by: andy42302 at July 3, 2009 2:02 PM

That is not what you said. What you said was:

The Bush Admin had nothing to do with shutting Enron down, or pressing charges.I said: It was Federal prosecution, so yes the Bush administration did.

To which you replied:

Kevin R, Enron ran it's own course to its own destruction. It was a cut and dry case for the jury. To assign credit for the Bush Admin, as if they stopped these outlaws in their tracks, is utter nonsense.

Posted by: andy42302 at July 3, 2009 7:29 AM

Your two posts are not saying the same thing as you claim. In the first post you say the Bush administration had nothing to do with "shutting down Enron or pressing charges." I countered that it was Federal prosecution so indeed, yes that makes it the Bush administration that "shut them down and pressed charges" - which you had claimed the Bush administration didn't do. Then, when called on it - that indeed it was the Bush administration, as it was his Justice Department - you discount it by saying - well, they would have been prosecuted by any administration.

But that isn't what you said in your first statement.

So yes, you lied in the first statement and then you dissembled in the second and then in third you dissembled again.

I'm the one whose "grasp is pathetic?"

Troll, you are one ugly piece of work.

But, that is your job.

And troll,

Enron hung themselves, not GWB.

is like saying any stupid criminal hangs themselves. Of course GWB himself didn't prosecute them!

But that doesn't have anything to do with your first statement, which was a lie.

Enron hung themselves.

NO, actually it takes a Justice Department to hang them.

It takes a Justice Department to gather the evidence and formulate and present the prosecution. And in this case it was the Federal Justice Department of the Bush administration that did it. So your first statement:

The Bush Admin had nothing to do with shutting Enron down, or pressing charges.

was a lie on your part.

Your first statement again:

The Bush Admin had nothing to do with shutting Enron down, or pressing charges.

Not GWB personally prosecuting them, as you cleverly try to dissemble - the Bush Admin;

It was his Justice Department, his administration, that did exactly that. It was his administration in the form of his Justice Department that gathered the evidence and formed the prosecution. Enron did not hang themselves anymore than any other criminal hangs themselves.

All of your counters to what I first stated is the dissembling of your first statement, which was a boldfaced lie.

Who lobbied for the TARP bailout of GM and Chrysler? It wasn't the ownership: The stockholders; It was the unions! And, with whom do these unions have pull? Ans: The 'crats.

The unions are in it for only one thing: The revenue stream from the poor schlubs who have no choice but to "join" the union. I'm familiar with union tactics. Back when bumper stickers stating: "Right to Work is a Rip-off" were being displayed. Right to work challenged the communistic closed shop: Where, you join the union: Or, you don't work. You might have heard, that "there is no honor among thieves." Similarly, there is no honor among unions, either. As a member, I learned about "brother" "hoods." I learned why hard hats were required on new construction work sites. Because, being in the communications field, if there was a member of another competing union shop working above you: Things like hammers and conduit benders just "accidentally" fall on to you from above. Your reps could do nothing. Except, of course ensure that your employer (the real guy who pays your wage) had enough "insurance" to cover the "unfortunate accidents."

Bankruptcy doesn't kill a business. It gives opportunities for protection, for a business to re-organize. Proclaiming them too big to fail was a favor to the unions. Had the bankruptcy path been followed, the workers would still be working. Hah-hah. But the union wouldn't be! Come on $75.00/hour per schlub. Where was all that money going? Have you ever seen what kind of cars these union "reps" drive? The homes they live in? Where does that money come from? Answer: Those union dues.

I watched a trucking company in Chicago pull a phoenix. (Very few succeed, because very few try) Anyway: The union had them over a barrel. They closed the doors on the place for a week. Took down the old signs, repainted the trucks. Named the new company an acronym of the old company. Hired back all the workers who used to work there; Provided, they would leave the union behind. That they did. The new company was able to cut rates, expand and build new, modern terminals; The wages and benefits for the new company, were essentially the same. And, this new company got even more business than ever before. Overtime galore. Bonus business: Like, providing transport services for companies like UPS when they would have the annual shake-down from their union. This company still employs people, they move more goods now than before the bankruptcy.

The union is like government. They are completely parasitic. They add no value. They may have kept children out of the mines and sweat-shops 100 years ago. But, the age of the company town is long gone. We're free and civilized now. We're all members of our own INDIVIDUAL "locals." As INDIVIDUALS, we should be free to work, where we mutually decide on being able to accept the terms of employment; Or walk away. A 3rd party isn't necessary, and is damaging. The government did GM and Chrysler no favor by not letting the natural course of bankruptcy give them the opportunity to reorganize. Consequently, they are now finished. The unions, which now have ownership stake in GM, will now watch their brothers collect un-employment, and will have a stake in those new Chinese manufactured Obama-mobiles. The union reps still have jobs. Their now management. Its just like Orwell's animal farm. All animals are created equal. But, some animals are "more equal," than others.

And now we enter into the age of the Obama administration:

When someone breaks the law and gets caught, they stand trial. It isn't an issue of who's in the White House."

Posted by: andy42302 at July 3, 2009 2:02 PM

It isn't as simple as that. You have to know someone broke the law; this often takes active investigation. You have to catch them. You have to prove someone broke the law. Troll makes it sound as Justice just happens, like going to the bathroom.

When it come to Federal prosecution it is often what the administration decides to pursue; who is investigated and who is prosecuted.

What do you think the Obama administration will do with investigation and prosecution? Any ideas troll?

Give us your ideas.

Let's see how your ideas pan out with the actual Obama administration's pursuit of justice as done by his Justice Department.

Michelle, you're coping selected sentences from different parts of a post and putting them together to create a new meaning.

You quoted me as saying;

"But don't let that slow down the fabrication of anything that pops in your head. I'd prefer for that to come from someone a bit more authoritative and with more credibility than say, you."

What I said was:

"Another audacious assumption Michelle. I never go to DU. They are almost as unhinged as this site. You won't find a post by me at D Kos either. But don't let that slow down the fabrication of anything that pops in your head. Also, I'm unsure why you would think I don't understand my options as where I can post or visit. With that said, if my input is not welcome here, I have no problems seeing myself to the door. I'd prefer for that to come from someone a bit more authoritative and with more credibility than say, you."

I think this is a tactic out of the FOX news playbook isn't it (dubbing Biden in claiming the economy's on solid ground)?

As said before, I have no control on what you decide to create to discredit me. You've said it was "fun" and while that may be true, it doesn't give you credibility. It may work well with those here in your clique (assuming they're not actually you) but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny in the real world of rational people. This only further proves that you're a fraud with no constructive rebuttal. Yawn at such childish tactics.

Keven R, I'm wondering why you insist on making more out of this than what it is.

"It isn't as simple as that. You have to know someone broke the law; this often takes active investigation. You have to catch them. You have to prove someone broke the law. Troll makes it sound as Justice just happens, like going to the bathroom.
When it come to Federal prosecution it is often what the administration decides to pursue; who is investigated and who is prosecuted."

When Enron bellied up, it became world news. There were around 20,000 investors saying they were scammed out of $70 billion from Enron. This isn't something that any administration could casually decide to prosecute or not to.

I stand by my statement "The Bush Admin had nothing to do with shutting Enron down, or pressing charges" because the outcry was too loud and the evidence was too obvious for any officials to do anything but let the legal system do its job. To say that the Bush Admin deserves credit for prosecuting Enron is like saying I deserve credit by saving someone's life by not running the stop light as they walked across the street.

And Kevin, if you want to GWB credit for prosecuting Enron, fine. It's just that I disagree.

But based on your rationale, don't you think Obama deserve the same credit for prosecuting Madoff? If you do, I disagree with that as well. The Obama Admin had nothing to do with shutting Madoff down, or pressing charges. Anything less would have been obstruction, just as it would have been with Enron.

And Kevin, if you want to GWB credit for prosecuting Enron, fine. It's just that I disagree.
Posted by: andy42302 at July 4, 2009 6:02 AM

VK, "And whose Justice Department brought him down, asshole?". You're surely not trying to assign credit to the Bush administration for nabbing, stopping, and procsecuting the Enron group are you?
Posted by: andy42302 at July 2, 2009 6:47 PM

The entire context of the argument began with your a post above.

It is obvious that it was the Bush Administration and his Justice Department did indeed nab, stop, and prosecute Enron.

And Kevin, if you want to GWB credit for prosecuting Enron, fine. It's just that I disagree.
Posted by: andy42302 at July 4, 2009 6:02 AM

Now you continue, as in your post above, to make it out that GWB was the center of discussion.

This was never about GWB himself getting credit for it.

You purposely chose to make the fallacious claim that the Bush Administration had nothing to do with it.

Should we give Clinton credit for Waco? NO. That was his Attorney general.

You don't want to give the Bush Administration credit for doing anything good and that is what motivated your first response about it. The Bush Administration. Not GWB himself. Trying to make me look ridiculous by claiming that my reasoning would give Obama himself credit for Madoff's prosecution misses the entire point.

Troll.

Michelle, you're coping selected sentences from different parts of a post and putting them together to create a new meaning.

And what I psted was:

"Another audacious assumption Michelle. I never go to DU. They are almost as unhinged as this site. You won't find a post by me at D Kos either. But don't let that slow down the fabrication of anything that pops in your head. Also, I'm unsure why you would think I don't understand my options as where I can post or visit. With that said, if my input is not welcome here, I have no problems seeing myself to the door. I'd prefer for that to come from someone a bit more authoritative and with more credibility than say, you."

SO it's pretty aparent to anyone who reads YOUR statement that you're trying to divert attention from the subject of how you continually contradict yourself, are distracted by how easily I twist you into a knot, and then how casually I toss you around like any good kitten plays with string.

Esentually all you're saying is:

Michelle you just make assuptions and Du and Kos are more rational than this wacky place and even though I don't visit there or comment I'm able to compare Moonbattery to Daily KOS. I cant disprove anything you have said so it's obvious your lying and making it up but dont worry if I feel like going someplace else I will. Oh and since you're a nobody I won't listen to you but I will if the owner shows up because they might have credibility.

That should just about cover your less than glowing sentiment of everyone here. Sure looks awful familiar though, kinda like how most liberals get on their high horse and look down on all of us little unelightened people.

I think this is a tactic out of the FOX news playbook isn't it (dubbing Biden in claiming the economy's on solid ground)?

Well considering Biden is an idot and gaffe machine and Odumbo has a real problem with telling the truth or being consistant it's difficult to place that comment. Honestly I'm not sure it was said but it sounds like something tweedle dee or tweedle dumb would say.

As said before, I have no control on what you decide to create to discredit me. You've said it was "fun" and while that may be true, it doesn't give you credibility. It may work well with those here in your clique (assuming they're not actually you) but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny in the real world of rational people. This only further proves that you're a fraud with no constructive rebuttal. Yawn at such childish tactics.

Andy you are discrediting yourself quite well without my help. We know your a liberal; just admit it and quite making a fool of yourself. For me, it is fun to out a half-witt like you or any other clueless liberal.

My positions and knowledge give me credibility, not the opinions of others. It's a pity you don't know this. It's comical that you keep throwing the "rational" card around in a desperate attempt to deflect light from your own inadequate answers. Here's a tip honey. IT won't work here!

Your final rebuke is that I'm a fraud and childish because you have no other comeback or valid solution is just hilarious. Everybody here reads it and see's right through you. We gave you the hammer and the nails and all you did was nail your own coffin shut dear.

Buh Bye Troll!!

Rah!! Rah!! Andy......

Keven,
"It is obvious that it was the Bush Administration and his Justice Department did indeed nab, stop, and prosecute Enron"
I'll concede and give you the one that The Bush Admin's Justice Dept did prosecute those of Enron. But to claim that they nabbed and stopped them is totally incorrect. They stopped themselves because they proverbially ran into a brick wall and were facing 20K investors who were screaming rape after being had for $70 billion. My point was that to not prosecute would have been an obstruction of justice.
I'll also concede that I despise GWB and it's true that I find it difficult to find good in the guy in any form. But it also seems that you can't find any good in Obama as you seem to have a difficult time assigning credit to his administration for nabbing, stopping, and Prosecuting Madoff (which, like the Bush Admin, didn't nab or stop anything and to not prosecute would be an obstruction of justice).

Michelle, you're talking in circles in a weak attempt to run from your admission of doctoring my statements, discrediting me from an imaginary source, and basically making up stuff as you go. I Honestly don't see how you could make a bigger fool of yourself than you already have.

LOL, didn't take long for the Heckling Calvary to arrive did it Dave. Been waiting all day with your pom poms? Here's a hint for future references, wait maybe an hour or so before doing your rah rahs. That way, it won't be so obvious that you use multiple names to attack me. Just a though.

I'm not a coward Andy. I'm loving this. You are getting your ass smoked. I choose to heckle you,however. I've been reading the exchanges here and you really are just a stupids liberal college boy.

Have you updated your site yet? Maybe I'll go check it out and see some of your typical liberal bias that you post.

Rah!! Rah!! Andy!!! LOL! I'm lovin' it..BADA DA DA DA.

TROLL.
Deeper and deeper this college BOY digs.

Andy, what we have in Michelle is a cut and paste Queen. While I offer credit to those who actually go and look up info, cut and pasting it does not make one smarter. Showing praise to the likes of Michelle Bachmann shows a lack of intellect and a lack of ambition to learn anything further. While the GOP falls apart, Conservatives are left aimlessly wandering for some direction. Whether it is Teabgging,2M4M,fighting socialism or communism or reliving the Cold War, cut and paste, invading a woman's privacy etc. They are so Goddamned horrified that the Republican Party is in the gutter. Here's a little somethin for Michelle and others, Andy you'll likely enjoy it for the reasons I do. Off to City Fest!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2b8m34aJZQ&feature=related

Piss off Wellstoned you have credibility issues.

LOL!! Look around you Wellstoned....do you see what's starting to happen? Did you hear what double turn coat Powell said. You and your silly liberal comrades' days are numbered. Even some of the liberal assholes in the press are beginning to notice this socialist for what he is. Oh and Wellstoned please stop acting like the Godless redneck that you are and not use the word "GD". you are a liberal so try to have a heart would you?

Andy....You are a pathetic liberal socialist jackass. Not even Casper the Wellstone Ghost can help you!!

Rah!! Rah!! college boys!

Now it's independence day so go do what liberals do and attend your anti America rally with your illegal immigrant and gay buddies.

I'm lovin' it! BADA DA DA DA

Credibility issues? This from a guy who's only consistency is name calling. I couldn't give a tinkers damn what Powell thinks, he endorsed the things that got us into this nonsense. "Godless Redneck"? Really? I don't deny Godless as an atheist, but redneck is a stretch. Dave, when you have something add to a debate, jump in without the pom-poms, you may learn something from Jay, Michelle , Andy or God forbid me.

No thanks Wellstoned this is more fun don't ya know!

Hey that pom pom remark was soooo original..LOL!

You don't give a tinkers about what Powell said?
I would if I were you, moonbat in denial. That's a black man that is concerned about the Messiahs policies, that's not supposed to happen. I have learned something from Jay and Michelle, those two wonderful conservative have had you two bozos on the defensive for two solid days!!! I got tired of pointing out Andy and his contradictions, so I thought it to be more fun just shaking my POM POMs while they ripped your college boy asses apart.

At least I'm consistent, socialist comrade. Maybe tomorrow we will have clever and candid conversation.

Now, go attend your anti American rally!!

WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Mommy Dave is calling me names!

LOL!!! What a redneck!

I fart in youtr general direction. :-D

Oh yeah Buddy Guy and Betty Lavette are awfully anti-American aren't they? You guys have to make up your minds around here, my title keeps getting longer...Casper Wellstoned, anti-American,liberal POS, Godless redneck whore! Next!

Thanks Wellstoned...I was the one that came up with Casper Wellstoned. I am very touched that you would acknowledge that.

Keep in mind GHOST OF WELLSTONE you follow a leadership that wishes to bring this country down, sympathises with terrorists as well as dictators, has extreme left policies, and socialist agendas. You defend this president almost to every degree, don't you? You stand for everything I am against so why would I want to debate you, huh? Your not going to change and I personally think that you and your liberal friends are completely out of touch with reality. People around here don't want all these bullshit taxes that you and your friends support. We don't want this intrusive government in our personal affairs. Your social issues, such as gay marriage and gay rights, should not be the agenda of this president or this government. Don't get me started on immigration. Leftist views on foreign policy are weak and very dangerous and you support this?

Today I don't want to debate, I want to antagonize. I like to piss liberals off so don't take it personal. The views that you and Andy have are mostly hypocritical in my opinion and aren't worth a rational debate because I have to spend to much time point this out rather than debating the topic. That is where you guys have serious inconsistencies. Wellstone, you and Andy have a condescending attitudes and a holier than thou traits. You encompass that liberal credo that I so despise..."We can do bu you can't."

Can you dig what I'm saying to ya'!!

Sorry Ghost of Wellstone: The liberal credo should read "We can do it but you cant." Some times I get like Andy.....distracted.

Andy Says:

Michelle, you're talking in circles in a weak attempt to run from your admission of doctoring my statements, discrediting me from an imaginary source, and basically making up stuff as you go.

And Michelle Rebut's:

Well I've consitently quoted you within the context of this "diatribe" as you call it. I posted my reply with snipits and without so that proves your assertion is false. That's ok though, I know honesty is difficult for a libeeral. You seem to have overlooked that your profile name here has a link to YOUR BLOG so It's easy for me to go read it and get a feel for WHO you actually are. OOOP's didn't think I would check up an adversary did you?

Andy Says:

I Honestly don't see how you could make a bigger fool of yourself than you already have.

ANd Michelle Rebut's:

Ok... Ok... I'll admit trying to educate you IS foolish, continuing to point out your lack of knowledge IS foolish, and expecting you to get a clue IS EVEN MORE foolish so you got me on that one.

See, conservitive have no problem admiting their mistakes and wasting time with you is a HUGE one.

Andy Says:

LOL, didn't take long for the Heckling Calvary to arrive did it Dave. Been waiting all day with your pom poms?

And Michelle Rebut's:

Didn't you say the "pom pom" reference was childish erlier? Why yes you did.... WHY are you still clinging to it?

Andy Says:

Here's a hint for future references, wait maybe an hour or so before doing your rah rahs. That way, it won't be so obvious that you use multiple names to attack me. Just a though.

And Michelle's brilliant Rebuttal IS Andy's own words:

"basically making up stuff as you go."

"Another audacious assumption"

"VK, fabricate much? "

"You guys seem to get caught up into making crap up as you go."

"finding some diversion to blame me or simply invent one if none exist. "

"When challenged on an issue, they use diversions, distractions, go into attack mode, and simply create their own argument out of thin air."

For someone who is so upset about,

"making up stuff as you go"

and is really is bothered when

"They refuse to accept anything that counters any though process they have. When faced with facts or what might challenge them, they resort to insults, spin, and diversions."

you seem to be doing a whole lot more than the rest of us are!

Hammer meet nail... Coffin meet Andy!!

AND THE HOLE GETS DEEPER!!!! LOL!!

Hey Casper, Michell last post is a perfect example of what I just explained to you. can't debate the topic because she is to busy pointing out all the hypocracy.

But Dave ALL I do is "cut and paste" remember I'm the cut and paste Queen here!!

The obvious fact that I had to LOOK for posts, articles, realavent information, and specifics about the topic don't really mean ANYTHING to liberal trolls.

All that matters is I used their own idocy against them. Hence "cut and paste" being now illegal to use in a discussion. Heaven forbid we use their own twisted logic and contradictions against them. That's not FAIR and we all no liberals only care about fairness.... Right?

Oh and Welstone, your to mentally bankrupt for me to respond to anymore, kinda like Andy is.

Michelle, by liberal standards you're not supposed to use there own words against them. You might point out that old liberal double standard that they are so typical of.

The cut and paste remark is the best they can do.

OOOOOOOOOO they are so cruel. Bad liberals!!

Now go to your anti America ralley and praise your Messiah!

Dave, the Link welstone posted was to a "Mike Malloy" radio clip.

It's seems like Mike doesn't know it is the Democrats WHO ALWAYS sponsor anti gun bills and try to get them enacted. Oopp's Welstone must not be very informed if he didn't realize that.

It's pretty typical though. Liberals really have NO CLUE whats going on around them and most don't really care because they stupidly believe that "they" will end up on top.

It never works out that way but at least they can still cling to "hope & change"?

I'm off to do my hair and get all dolled up to go out, so I'll check back tomorrow to see what kind of pointless drivel our two local marxist's can come up with.

Be safe Michelle, These two liberal clowns are at their anti American rally with their illegal immigrant and fascist gay buddies.

Hope and Change.....yea right, I hope I still have some change left after these leftards are done.

Michelle, the reason I thought you might be "Jeff" is because you remind me of an owner of another blog. You share the same characteristics in your writings, your display of hatred, the spin, the manufacturing of nonsense, and the arrogance of assuming you're right even after making a fool of yourself. Jeff also carried his group of followers that would engage in kibitzing, quite similar as here. It became obvious that Jeff and his merrymen were all the same person after awhile. The same thing seems to be following the same pattern here.
Jeff's rebuttals were much like yours, dissect my entire post, post each sentence, and respond with a spew that usually didn't even address the sentence he was responding to. It was usually some non sequitur or redundant and mundane giberish because he couldn't truly counter. Consider the following

Andy: I'm interested in knowing where you acquired your knowledge of my educational background, particularly in history and The Constitution.

Michelle: Well that's easy, I just followed the liberal playbook on page 421.

Andy: Also, please provide some documentation for your claim of me being a communist sympathizer.

Michelle" I will as soon as you "provide some documentation " that you are not. Until you can prove you're not a communist everyone will know you are. Remember YOU called me "nut's" for expecting any proof before so I guess that makes you a nutter for expecting me to provide any.... Just following the standard YOU set!

Andy: Again, you simply create your own argument out of thin air and claim victory for winning the argument that you manufactured.

Michelle: I'm just doing what ALL liberals do sweetie. What's the matter, you don't like your liberal playbook methods when they get used on you? Oh and you still haven't managed to disprove ANYTHING I've said thusfar... Wanna try again or are you starting to realize how unable you are to keep up with someone smarter than you.

Well, perhaps I'm unable to keep up with your intellect. You process the knowledge of my thought process, my opinions of issues I've never discussed (and that I didn't even know I had), and my position on political positions. Dave even states his knowledge of what functions I attend on holidays evenings. And this is all supported by a play book that you admit is not actually in print. So if I'm outwitted by your imaginary psyche, bully for you. It's obvious that I can't win when only you hold the rule book that's subject to change at your whim.

last weekend andy mopped the floor with you guys. this weekend you clowns just laid down and mopped it with youselves.

rj913......WRONG JACKASS IDIOT LIBERAL BITCHBOY.

Hey Dave, I thought you said you were having fun. Your last post sounded a bit angry so I read it again. Can I buy a comma?