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"The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax"

who is not supposed to treat it as a "tax" the person paying or the government?

This bill is insane. If they want to allow people not in employer plans to have some kind of health plan, just add a tax deduction to cover most of the cost and require insurance companies to offer a basic group plan for uninsured thats similar to ones offered to employers. Of course that would be wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to simple for the pinheads in Washington.

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC — "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that.

In the Soviet Union the future was always known, it was the past that always changed.

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends.

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from the Government to end a life!

This almost reminds me of hitlers 'useless eaters' program.

Tex-Mex, it sounds alot like SOYLENT GREEN, where the old and infirmed were encouraged to enter old sport arenas turned into euthanasia clinic - before they were transported to a waste disposal plant and turned into .... SOYLENT GREEN. In this case it would be called OBAMA GREEN - if you baked it, it would turne black.

it sounds alot like SOYLENT GREEN, where the old and infirmed were encouraged to enter old sport arenas turned into euthanasia clinic.

You mean this?. This image has come back to me every time I hear Dear Leader talk about killing people it's too expensive to keep alive.

Personally, I think it's noble for someone to say, "I would rather die comfortably than prolong my life a short time at great expense," but it should be *my* choice, not the choice of some Obamunist ACORN medicrat.

I took your nightmarish list, Van, and sent it directly to my congressman (one of the cap and tr8ors). I am hoping he will try to redeem himself and not do anything stupid. Everybody, take this list and go viral with it.

I think having the government being able to access my bank account is a violation of the fourth amendment. The only way the government can get into my bank account is by a warrant from the judiciary of our government.

Nor are these stipulations guaranteeing a republican form of government nor to they protect and defend the Constitution. The enemies are domestic and have taken an oath to protect it but they are in fact snubbing their nose at it.

This whole thing stinks and Pelosi needs to be frog-marched in chains out of office right behind Obama and Reid as enemies of the Constitution. Wouldn't mind seeing every legislature that votes for it treated the same way.

I am a small business owner. I can ASSURE you, my communist government, that as soon as this piece of destructive nonsense gets passed, I will be a solo shop and my employees will be on the unemployment roles. I absolute assure you of this. This small business owner is NOT going to play nice.

The person who most needs to see this is Obamas doctor...

Each day of the Obama presidency that goes by has me thinking more and more that the time for an armed revolution is fast approaching.

I hope Obama does a Health Care tour this August. Remember when Hillary decided to go on tour and convince the country of her health care plan?

Kevin, if you come back here, can you refresh my memory on that?

Karin:"Everybody, take this list and go viral with it."
I sent this out to about 30 people or so- with the PDF attachment included. All 1017 pages of it. If everyone else will do the same, this information will circulate at an unbelievable rate. If it doesn't...
Let's not even consider that a possibility. Waterloo indeed.

Karin, back in '93 when Hillary was trying to convince the country to back HillaryCare she decided to go on a tour across the country to give speeches and rally support. She had to cut her HillaryCare tour short though because she kept on getting booed. I mean really booed. The tour was a complete wash and had to be canceled. It was that embarrassing for her. As I remember it, she only made a a couple of stops on her tour. It was that bad. No support. Zero, zip, nadda.

Each day of the Obama presidency that goes by has me thinking more and more that the time for an armed revolution is fast approaching.

Posted by: J at July 23, 2009 11:31 AM

Same here, I think Civil War v.2.0 (aka The Peasants Revolt) is THE ONLY way to get rid of the entire cast of useless idiots in DC. They certainly aren't listening to us, thatsfersure.

And I thought "Logan's Run" was just a movie. It was really a documentary about state run/mandated life choices, I mean health care.

Pg 42 of HC Bill — The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you.

Health Choices Commissioner? Is that like a Health Choices Czar? Add that to the list.
Energy czar--Carol Browner

Urban czar --Adolfo Carrion, Jr.
Infotech czar --Vivek Kundra
Faith-based czar-- Joshua DuBois
Health reform czar Nancy-Ann DeParle
New TARP czar --Herb Allison
Stimulus accountability czar-- Earl Devaney
Non-proliferation czar --Gary Samore
Terrorism (I thought they didn't use that word) czar --John Brennan
Regulatory czar-- Cass Sunstein
Drug czar-- Gil Kerlikowske
Guantanamo closure czar --Daniel Fried
pay czar--Kenneth R. Feinberg
a U.S. border czar--Alan Bersin
car czar--Steve Rattner
Economic Czar-- Paul A. Volcker
Intelligence Czar -- Dennis Blair
Great Lakes Czar-- Cameron Davis
Cyber Czar-- TBA
Copyright Czar
Climate Czar
Housing Czar
Mortgage Czar
an Iran czar,
a Middle East czar-- George Mitchell
Afghanistan and Pakistan czar
education czar
AIDS czar
green jobs czar

How many czars does it take to screw up a government? About one can do it. This is what liberals mean by over kill!

When and if this is over, every last czar should be investigated for years and charged with
something--doesn't really matter what-- as long as they are totally dishonored, fined, and ruined financially by defending themselves against charges they can't defend themselves against, and generally mocked and lectured by whatever congressman is free that day. This should go on for most of the rest of their lives.

Wow. Every day that passes makes me believe more and more that America will soon be a communist society. Thank you, Comrade Obama.

As a sane liberal, I can say that I personally disagree on a few points of what was posted up there, but quite a bit of it is on the money. Here's to hoping Comrade Barack gets impeached soon.

Health Choices Czar? Dr. Jack Kavorkian since he's out of prison, hopefully that parole thing wont be a problem!

I cannot get the PDF to load. Does somebody have a list of the lines that talk about government mandating your health care? I am looking for the direct wording.

If they want to allow people not in employer plans to have some kind of health plan,...

Posted by: Ghost of HillaryCare at July 23, 2009 9:50 AM

They don't. They don't give a f*ck about whether a single person gets insurance that doesn't already have it.

The aim of the entire farce is - purely and simply - to destroy the system as it currently exists, because the system as it currently exists is not controlled by the government (ie. Democrats).

Case in point: the cited-ad-nauseum figure of 50 million Americans without insurance is bogus, and the Democrats who repeat it (including Obama) must know this. Why? Because anonymous morons with silly screen names on the intarnet, like me, know it's bogus. Occam's razor dictates that the president of the United States does not know less about health care statistics than I do, ergo, he and the other Democrats know it's bogus. (Obama used this figure in his clusterf**k press conference.)

The 46 million figure includes an unknown amount of illegal immigrants and an unknown amount of young, healthy people who do not have health insurance by their own choice.

There are at least around 20 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. That's almost half of the '46 million' accounted for. It's completely likely that young healthy Americans who have chosen not to pay out for health insurance make up a majority of the rest of the 46 million figure.

If I know that, then every damn Democrat including Obama knows it too. (Or if they don't, then that makes me more qualified to be President than Obama. I'm not American either ;))

So there you go. Democrats know there are quite possibly NO Americans who are uninsured because they can't afford it. They know around 90% of the general public are happy with their own healthcare. They know a similar majority is opposed to healthcare for illegal aliens. So why are they trying to completely alter the entire system, and going on national television recounting (probably false) sob stories about poor black mexican unemployed transgendered single mothers who earn minimum wage and can't afford to have their deadly brain cancer treated or their crippling genital warts, so they are sending letters to Obama begging him to restructure the entire health care system?

They're lying, and their only possible motivation for the lies is to bring health care under government control - everyone knows it. The MSM just play along because they want the same thing (and they also ultimately want 'czar' jobs in the new mega-government.)

Mandible Claw: "...their crippling genital warts..."
ROFL! Thanks for that line! It made my morning!

Boy, is this some kind of a mess. Talk about an idiot plan. Lets do something easy and for sure. Lets put all our elected officials on the same plan of HC that the public uses. Do away with their health care plan and retirement plan and let them earn the same retirement the tax-payers enjoy. If this plan is not socialism/communist then we need to take those words out of our english language. You can bet that I'll be sending this on to everyone I know and asking them to pass it on to everyone they know.
Ron

The politicians had better figure out why sporting goods shops can't keep sporter rifles and pistols on the shelves. Also why popular ammo for these weapons are in very short supply. Even the police departments are having a hard time getting it. I'm not advocating a 2nd revolution but isn't that what the Second
Amendment is all about, a government or enemy foreign or domestic about to take away our God given freedoms. God bless America and all who will stand up for her. I am ready if necessary!

My God help us all ,if we don't stand up now becouse this could be HELL on earth ,just like Germany ,how their rights was taken away ,& we are loseing ours a little at a time & this hits where it hurts most ,in every one right in the gut & they can deside you have lived long enough & come & take you out because you are costing the GOVERMANT too much . hay if you cant improve it DONT BREAK IT. THANKS

And we ( Seniors ) thought communism was bad. This is about the worst thing that can happen to American citizens. Our Armed Forces coming home from wars on foriegn soils do not deserve to come home to an America like this. It is frightening to know that I will be told when and how to die. I am 78 years old and in great health, but that won't seem to matter. I am absolutely against this bill.

This is an incredible example of the short sightedness of our current administration that sees human life only in terms of direct dollar value. It reflects the mentality of the Nazis during WWII to pick on a class or category of citizens and attempt to eliminate them as a whole... in this case rather than being based on ethnicity or religion it is based on birth date. And the surprising thing is that Immanuel is Jewish so he, of all people, ought to reject that kind of mindset, not promote it. What ever happend to the notion that a person who has lived a long life is an asset to the community... that their many years of life experience and first hand witnessing of world changes provides them with valuable insights that ought to be included in the decision making of any changes affecting millions of Americans?

Obama said about seniors that "...they have had their time...". Well, I have worked my entire life paying into the system, giving a large chunk of my money to the government for decades and it is only now that my time to receive has finally arrived. I have not HAD my time. This IS my time! And if Americans are going to be forced to pay INTO a system all their lives then when it is time to receive benefits from all those years they have paid in they are told they cannot receive any such return who in their right mind will support that? This proposed "Health Care" bill is more than scary. It is a travesty and an assault on the American people. I believe we need to tell all senators that if they vote for this we will never, ever, vote for them again. Also, if this is the health care plan for you and me then all senators must be held to the same standard......No one, and I mean NO ONE, should be able to get any better plan including congressmen and the president. If it is good enough for us it must be good enough for them.

Hey, Americans live long lives now in part because of the kind of health care we have received in the last century. Our life span has doubled in the past 100 years. If he wants to get rid of having so many old people why not just deny care to the young, so that nobody ever gets old?? Nip the problem in the bud. In other words if you live long enough to be a senior then we should value that as a national resource and take care of that person to the best of our ability, but deny health care to the young that contributes to so many getting old. Does that make sense? No more so than denying it to seniors .... but then making sense is not what this is all about.

The president just had a birthday, and he is in his late forties. Does he have any idea how soon he will himself be in that class of people that the HC plan is dissing? He has to be out of his frickin mind. And if we do nothing about it we are too.

When this country was founded congressmen did their jobs part time, and earned a living doing other kinds of work. It was not a profession in itself. Now it is seen as a full time entity to itself and regular raises are given to legislators by the legislators themselves, they never allow their consituents to vote on whther they merit one based on performance. And they pass laws that hurt others while making themselves exempt. I believe that when laws are passed they must keep legislators and political office holders, including the president in the same pool for health care and education. Allowing them to have special treatment is an elitist approach, not a democratic principle, and when they do while pretending to represent the people it is fraud... they are criminals

Hey, when you see what they want to do about those with conditions that have no hope of improvement, using dementia as the example, getting nothing more than a bandaid. . . . will that inlcude our brave service men and women who sustain massive permanent injuries in fighting for our freedoms? No more consideration for PTSS since once you get it you are sensitized for life.... these will be "special needs people" with restricted enrollment.

And based on the thinking abilities of our congress "persons" it appears they suffer from permanent thinking disabilities already.... will they also get only "bandaid" care? the least we can do is put them out of office to relieve their suffering, and ours, before it is too late. Is a massive recall of our "representatives" who represent only themselves within the realm of possibility?

This is more than a health care bill. It is a liberal shopping list of must have controls on all Americans.It gives the feds control of our finances, our right to decide if we should treat an illness, and even if we want a consultation with Dr. Kevorkian. It takes the patient ,doctor relationship out of play and gives us a subservient patient, government beaurocrat relationship. Isn't that a good reason to throw the bums out in 2010?