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June 27, 2009

Eight RINOs Let Cap and Tax Insanity Pass

Astoundingly, eight Republicans voted in favor of the massive statist power grab that passed the House yesterday, which will result in employers leaving America for countries that allow them to do business, government intrusiveness reaching extremes undreamt of by Stalin, Keith Olbermann's puppeteers at GE raking in $zillions of ill-gotten loot, and energy costs shooting through the stratosphere — all in the name of a "crisis" that provably does not exist.

Had they voted on the side of sanity and freedom against rapidly encroaching totalitarianism, the insanity of Cap and Tax would be over. Instead, pending Senate approval, we will have the largest tax increase in American history, right in the heart of a deep recession. The inevitable effect will be as intended: a depression. People struggling to feed themselves are easy people to control.

Via The Dana Report, here are the eight Republicans who proved themselves traitors not just to their party, but to their country:

Mary Bono Mack (CA-45) (202) 225-5330 @marybonomack
Michael Castle (DE-00) (202) 225-4165 @repmikecastle
Mark Kirk (IL-10) (202) 225-4835 @markkirk
Leonard Lance (NJ-07) (202) 225-5361
Frank LoBiondo (NJ-02) (202) 225-6572
John McHugh (NY-23) (202) 225-4611
Dave Reichert (WA-08) (202) 225-7761 @davereichert
Christopher Smith (NJ-04) (202) 225-3765

Republicans Jeff Flake of Arizona and John Sullivan of Oklahoma didn't bother to vote.

If you suffer the misfortune of being represented by any of these reprobates, more contact info can be found here. Please don't be derelict in your duty as a citizen by voting for them under any circumstances.

On tips from pomalom, nancz, GhostofJournalism, Darrel, and The MaryHunter.

Posted by Van Helsing at June 27, 2009 10:47 AM

Comments

Although global warming is an absolute, no-doubt-about-it hoax...

A simple solution (besides this cap and tax garbage) would be to encourage the high "pollutant" emitters to just plant some damn trees. Simple science says that they use CO2 to, you know, give us air to breath. It's a simple circle.

Damnit I hate libtards. Absolutely brainless people... actually, I'm not sure they are even people.

This no doubt proves that liberalism is a mental disorder... and apparently it's contagious.

Thanks for taking a dump on America you retard RINOs, even though we're ALREADY struggling as it is due to libtard policies...

Depression is inevitable.

Posted by: AmericanToTheCore at June 27, 2009 10:58 AM

ACTION ALERT

THE EIGHT RHINOS HAVE UNTIL JULY 2nd TO SEAL THEIR FATE - THEY CAN STILL CHANGE THEIR VOTES.

GET OFF OF YOU BUTTS AND GET ON THE PHONES AND EMAILS! Let them know what you think.


Any good work they have done has been for naught. Unless they change their votes by the deadline, Wed, July 2nd, they will for ever be a member of the Cap and Tr8tors

http://www.teapartypatriots.org/


Posted by: Oiao at June 27, 2009 11:08 AM

V.H., a good picture to use for this insanity, or for an Open Thread, would be that famous WW II picture of that Frenchman who was standing in the crowd crying as the Nazis marched down the streets of Paris.

Though I always felt empathy with him, I never in a million years thought that I would personally feel the same pangs of sorrow which he felt.

Posted by: Kevin R at June 27, 2009 11:12 AM

If you want to contact the 8 Tr8tors, use the phones. Only 2 of them accept emails from outside their districts. I know -- I tried.

Remind them that this Bill is unlikely to pass the Senate. Then, they'll have betrayed their constituencies and will have nothing to show for it. Oh, and payback'll be a bitch in 2010. As Pelosi is at present.

Posted by: MoogieP at June 27, 2009 11:22 AM

Republicans Jeff Flake of Arizona and John Sullivan of Oklahoma didn't bother to vote.

Tell Jeff Flake not to 'Flake' out on thaking a stand. He will be held accountable.

Tell both of them they will be held accountable as if they voted for it!

Jeff Flake:

Washington, D.C. Office
240 Cannon H.O.B.
Washington, D.C. 20515
(202) 225-2635 - phone
(202) 226-4386 - fax
District Office
1640 South Stapley
Suite 215
Mesa, AZ 85204
(480) 833-0092 - phone
(480) 833-6314 - fax


John Sullivan:

Washington, D.C. Office
434 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Phone: 202-225-2211
Fax: 202-225-9187

Tulsa District Office
5727 S. Lewis Avenue, Suite 520
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74105-7146
Phone: 918-749-0014
Fax: 918-749-0781

Bartlesville District Office
401 S. Johnstone Avenue, Suite 348
Bartlesville, Oklahoma
Phone: 918-336-6500


Posted by: Oiao at June 27, 2009 11:40 AM

FLAKE DIDN'T VOTE?!?

Posted by: nancz at June 27, 2009 11:48 AM

"Kevin R at June 27, 2009 11:12 AM"

I second that.

I fear that Liberals will get everything they want, DISPITE the countrys that were/are communist WARNING them that it would be a disaster! Yes, they will get everyting that they wanted, and America will fall, dragging the rest of the world with us.

The good news is that Liberals will FINALY wake up, or become the most HATED people in history, ending their insanity for a couple of generations.

The bad news is that over a billion people, all of civilization, the ENVIORMENT and technological progress will suffer for a couple of centurys or more.

Posted by: KHarn at June 27, 2009 12:05 PM

I did not know that Flake did not vote. Thanks for the info.

Posted by: Mark at June 27, 2009 12:18 PM

REVOLUTION

Posted by: Obama is a Crap-eating Liar at June 27, 2009 12:19 PM

Take to the streets I say!!!!!

We have got to get these socialist jackasses out of office.

Posted by: Dave at June 27, 2009 12:33 PM

In Climate Change Bill, What May Become an Election-Year Issue

Hello 2010 elections - Dems are betting the farm on this one!

Make sure you tell all the RINOS they will be thrown out! Its 1993 all over again, and we are going to throw out the RINOS with the Dems.

“On the floor, it felt like we won,” said Representative Tom Cole of Oklahoma, a party political strategist. “They put a lot of guys on the line.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/us/politics/28cong.html

Posted by: Oiao at June 27, 2009 12:49 PM

There may be a silver lining in this. The Senate will probably not do anything right now. It will force the EPA to take it on and force regulations on companies before the midterm elections. This can be a rally call for people to get out to vote them out. It will also send a clear message to the chosen one that his game is over! Only if the message is spread to everyone! We can not depend on the MSN to do it, so that burden falls on us as concerned people.

Posted by: Sean G at June 27, 2009 12:50 PM

It looks like we're going to have to destroy the Republican party in order to save it.

Posted by: xantl at June 27, 2009 12:55 PM

Just a question to pass out to everyone who reads this. Is Al Gore a registered lobbyist? Does he has to be one since his company stands to get a windfall from this legislation. Or does he get a pass simply because he was on a ticket that got elected. Just a thought!

Posted by: Sean G at June 27, 2009 12:57 PM

The Elephant may forgive, but it never forgets.

This man will not be getting votes from the people he stabbed in the back.

Representative Lance (R-NJ) has betrayed Republicans by casting the deciding vote for the cap-and-trade bill.

He certainly did not listen to his constituents.

Lance needs to be targeted and thrown out of office in 2010.


Posted by: Oiao at June 27, 2009 12:59 PM

Van - the thread title should be 10, not 8 RINOS, Let Cap and Tax Insanity Pass!

Well, I've held back a consideral sum of money that I used to donate, consistently, to politics.

Now I've found a reason to $pend it!

Posted by: Oiao at June 27, 2009 1:02 PM

McHugh already cut his deal.Obama tapped him for Secretary of the Army.

POS could give a crap for his constituents.

He should keep his body armor on,if he ever climbs out from under Obamas' desk. Hope he doesn't get fragged.

Posted by: NY Nick at June 27, 2009 1:11 PM

It looks like we're going to have to destroy the Republican party in order to save it.

My Thoughts as well xantl. Time to "Cull" the heard. Rinos Not welcome, go be a "Specter"

Posted by: Unicorn Fart at June 27, 2009 1:53 PM

These 10, 8 RINOS and 2 no shows, had better watch the PA Senate Race for next year.

According to a new Franklin & Marshall poll released Thursday, only 28 percent of registered voters in Pennsylvania think Specter should be re-elected.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2009/06/sen_arlen_specter_still_must_c.html

Posted by: Oiao at June 27, 2009 2:04 PM

Flake and Sullivan didn't vote? Why? God damn that pisses me off. They are paid to vote on bills! That's what they're elected for! That's why we pay them our tax $$$. I wish to god there was some way to dock their pay when an elected official does'nt vote or misses a vote!

Posted by: Bryherb at June 27, 2009 2:05 PM

VIDEO Tea Party Against Cap and Trade Waxman-Markey Bill Eureka Ca Jun 27th 2009

Video

http://oldgloryradio.com/wordpress/?p=896

Posted by: Oiao at June 27, 2009 2:09 PM

It has finally become clear that the anthropogenic global warming "science" is razor close to patent drivel. A WSJ editorial recently outlined how other countries are backing away from GW hysteria.
This same anti-global warming trend should have overwhelmed U.S. legislators were it not for MSM propaganda, liberal fascism and the suppression of debate and dissent by U.S. universities.
The sanity trend eventually will catch up to the American people however and that's why BO and the congress are pushing it through so fast.
These RINOs are taking advantage of all of these factors in order to clandestinely kiss up to BO and the Dimocrats for what amounts to a photo opt.

These traitors need to be heavily harrased and then summarily eliminated from the GOP.

BTW the DimRINO John McCain is in favor of "Cap and Trade."
John McCain is the Bernard Madoff of the Republican party, so his upcoming swindle vote in the senate should come as no surprise.

Posted by: Fiberal at June 27, 2009 2:13 PM

Two comments from Labor Prime Ministers back in the 70's when a general recession hit Britain.

"We used to think that you could spend your way out of a recession and increase employment by cutting taxes and boosting government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists." James Callaghan

“The trouble with theoretical economists is that they don't understand that when you have a deficit, you can only finance it by borrowing, and you've got to persuade people that it's worth lending money to you and that they'll get their money back... there's no way of escaping it.” Dennis Healey during the 1976 Sterling Crisis.

Posted by: Jim at June 27, 2009 2:48 PM

McCain Pushes 'Cap-And-Trade' Plan to Fight Global Warming

GOP candidate promotes working with Europe on climate change, but only wants to 'encourage' involvement of 'rest of the world.'

http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2008/20080319133739.aspx

Posted by: Oiao at June 27, 2009 2:48 PM

Yup - we had a mini Cap n Trade protest today in lil ol' Statesboro As Well!

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.php?pid=2542917&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=103575892743&aid=-1&id=686201469&oid=103575892743

Facebook link to pics of protest on main street courthouse steps

Posted by: Heather M at June 27, 2009 2:57 PM

Kirk of Illinois is thinking about running for the Senate!!! I think this vote will put a end to that,,,I will call on Monday and let him know. I'd rather vote for the democrat then this traitor.
But there are going to be plenty of people trying for that job

Posted by: Bob at June 27, 2009 3:14 PM

These guys need to hear relentlessly about this treason.
A grass-roots campaign to get them out of the party is the only way to warn off similar actions by John McCain and the senate RINOs in the upcoming senate vote on this bill.

For New Yorkers, the best available contact is Stephanie Nigro, in charge of PR.

stephanie.nigro@mail.house.gov

Predictably, John McHugh (what is it about you Scots named John?) heavily screens his emails and calls to only those in the 23rd district. (As if his actions didn't affect everyone...arrogant RINO)

Posted by: Fiberal at June 27, 2009 4:34 PM

Miserble rino scum puts the demands of eco-freaks over the need of the people THROW ALL THOSE BUMS OUT EVERYONE SQUAWK SQUAWK SQUAWK SPURWING PLOVER IS ONE MAD SHOREBIRD SQUAWK SQUAWK SQUAWK

Posted by: SPURWING PLOVER at June 27, 2009 5:20 PM

Colorado's vote went along party lines for the most part. Republicans voted NO, Democrats voted YES, except for John Salazar, District 3, voted NO. He is my representative. I will email him and thank him for his vote. There is lots of energy development in Western Colorado where he has many constituents who depend on it for jobs. He made a wise vote. As far as Washington Democrats he is one of the few fair minded ones. And yes, that is his brother Ken who is Interior Secretary, a former Colorado Senator.

Last week, I reported here on Moonbattery that the cap and trade had passed the Senate. I was mistaken. It was something to do with energy but not the cap and trade. Sorry for the confusion. Now it is on to the Senate to vote. Rumor has it that it might have a difficult time in passing. Time will tell. Colorado has two Democrat Senators, Bennet and Udall. I will email both of them, urging them to vote NO!

Bennet is a hand picked troll by Guv'nuh Ritter (I call him Bitter) to replace Ken Salazar. Bennet's political experience is zero, his background is in higer education. Udall--I don't know too much about him, because I didn't vote for him. He is realted to the New Mexico Udall--they're cousins I believe, and is related to the Arizona Udalls somewhere along the line.

We all have much work to do in getting our states'
Senators to defeat this cap and trade bill. E-mail, call, whatever it takes!

Posted by: Graycat at June 27, 2009 6:57 PM

Their official nickname: "The Capn Traitors."

Posted by: V the K at June 27, 2009 8:30 PM

There was a time, when men actually still existed, people would call this
legislation for what it is...theft.

I wrote an email to Chris Smith today. I should have called him last week instead.
From now on I'm going to be a lot more active in politics. The reason moonbats
get their way despite being a small minority is that as a percentage they are far
more active than "regular" people. We have jobs, kids and other responsibilies
that keep us busy. Moonbats hibernate until called upon by their far-left
controllers to swarm. Conservative-leaning people focus on being productive and
don't obsess about government.

This bill passed in a similiar way to the stimulus bill. There were a lot of last-minute
ammendments and the final vote was after 8pm on a Friday so we have to wait
for Monday to call.

I assume this will be the new template for these far-reaching omnibus
bills. The Republic our ancestors founded and defended is being
made into a gross parody of a republic. I personally will not let myself
become a milk cow to be used by government everytime some
moonbat cause needs to be funded. I'm not sure what to do yet but I
definitely will not go down without a fight.

Oh... and since unions support these moonbats I suggest we don't support
unions. I refuse to now by ANY union goods unless there is no choice.
Let's put pessure on union members so that their dues are no longer
supporting mootbats.

Posted by: Bill_K_NJ at June 27, 2009 11:11 PM

I admire your honesty and your spirit Bill.

I am gonna pray for you all and hope this disgusting global theft can somehow be stopped.

I was absolutely gobsmacked to see that even ONE republican voted for this, never mind 8!!!! I cannot imagine how they ever thought they would get away with this terrible betrayal. I feel so sorry for those who put them in power :(

This demands a very strong and vocal response....I pray God calls up some leaders that we can admire and support.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 28, 2009 5:52 AM

Thank you for this information.

Posted by: Navek at June 28, 2009 7:10 AM

It looks like we're going to have to destroy the Republican party in order to save it.

There is nothing left to destroy. The supposed party of limited government just lost enough defecting votes to enable the largest tax increase in American history combined with a gutting of the private sector's ability to create the future wealth needed to pay for the trillions spent and committed in the last six months. That a single Republican voted for this tells you everything you need to know about the state of the party. It is a carcass going through the motions of being a political party.

Posted by: mega at June 28, 2009 8:10 AM

there are a lot of good republicans out there. Most voted against this bill. We don't need to destroy the party. Just get rid of the RINOs and then destory the democrat party

Posted by: Bob at June 28, 2009 9:34 AM

I know it's typical of a moonbat like myself to disagree but may I respectfully submit Dave Reichert of the 8th district of Washington. Here we have a guy that just barely eked by in 08 against Dem Darcy Burner. Also, his district overwhelmingly (about 70%) supported cap and trade. If he votes against his constituents, it could easily cost the GOP a seat. Also, isn't it the right thing for a Representative to, say, be representative of his/her constituents. As far as I know, he was the only one under such pressure. Double edge sword ain't it?

Posted by: andy42302 at June 28, 2009 11:59 AM

Bob: You did see that the Republican Party actually nominated RINO's for President right? Just so you got that, the Republicans ran two Big city liberals with an [R] Against their name as a choice. They also ignored the electorate in 06 and were punishing to pass "immigration reform" (shamnesty to you & I)
I don't see how you think the majority of the party can be saved at this point.

Posted by: xantl at June 28, 2009 12:20 PM

Obama claimed that the average American would not bear the brunt of this historic tax-increase: he stated that instead ““It is paid for by the polluters who currently emit dangerous carbon emissions.”

Just compare this outrageous falsehood to Ronald Reagans’ famous quote:

“The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us.

Business doesn’t pay taxes, and who better than business to make this message known? Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business.”

And after the way the rammed this through the House with little debate, without legislators even reading it… and while quarantining the GOP from any meaningful input whatsoever, any foolhardy individuals who still believe Obama’s threadbare “bipartisanship” spiel ought to have their head examined.

http://reaganiterepublicanresistance.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Reaganite Republican at June 28, 2009 4:47 PM

From a troll post above, it occurs that liberals and the MSM will now begin a propaganda campaign to try and convince the citizenry that major blocks of voting constituents favor Cap and Trade.

A Rasmussen poll shows that only 24 percent of voters could even identify that cap-and-trade policies had anything to do with environmental issues, let along form a solid and informed opinion on the subject.
So when the propaganda begins with full steam, liberal polls (read NYT) will probably find that people not only understand, but want Cap and Trade.

So far most of the propaganda has focused on and characterized CO2 as a pollutant, against all common sense, observation and a preponderance of scientific evidence.
Basically, liberals want less consumption, fewer people and a destruction of capitalism.

Now with the help of the Despicable 8 RINOs, and later with John McCain in the senate, they may get it.

Posted by: Fiberal at June 28, 2009 8:04 PM

Here are some towns and zip codes in McHugh's district (mine.), for use in email. He only takes his own.

Watertown 13601
Brownville 13615
Governeur 13642
Adams 13605
Carthage 13619
Sackets Harbor 13685

Posted by: Karin at June 29, 2009 5:44 AM

Andy, I did some searching, and I can't find where Reichert's district was 70% in favor of cap and trade, assuming they understood what it meant. When not even the congress read the bill, I find it hard to believe his constituents did. (Wasn't it supposed to be up on the internet for 5 days?) Anyway, I know his district is solidly Obama country, but when even the Demo Underground was saying this was bad legislation, I have to be skeptical that 70% of the 8th district loved it.

Posted by: Karin at June 29, 2009 6:49 AM

Karin: That is because when factual data do not support his argument Andy "invents facts" like his claim that President Bush once said that the Constitution"is just a goddamn piece of paper" but no credible source is found for it on the Internet. In short Andy is a liar, and any "fact" out of his mouth should be challenged with a request for a source.

Posted by: xantl at June 29, 2009 7:12 AM

Karin, thanks for the constructive questioning. I got those figures from an article that Eric Erickson wrote over at Redstate. Eric wrote;
"Are we going to seriously punish Dave Reichert for voting for cap-and-trade when he barely won his district in 2008 and something like 70% of his district both supports cap-and-trade and thinks environmental issues are the most important issues in Congress? If so, don’t delude yourself into ever thinking we’ll get the majority back."

Eric, is a strong conservative writer and I think the chief exec or whatever of Redstate. Although I naturally disagree with his thinking on a lot of issues, he usually isn't wrong on his facts.

Posted by: andy42302 at June 29, 2009 7:16 AM

I called Flake and Sullivan's office. Flake didn't show up to vote because he attended his daughter's scholarship competition even though he had 2 days notice that the bill was coming up for a vote. Sullivan is attending to "personal issues" until July 1st. I told both of them that it was just great that their personal concerns came before the concerns of their constituents and that their names were on the list to be voted out of office in 2010. Please,folks, call them and ask these same questions and register your disapproval.

Posted by: Itsabigcountry at June 29, 2009 7:39 AM

xantl, I guess my response to Karin kinda blows your diatribe out of the water don't it? Or, do I need to prove that 3 major news networks back up Redstate before I'm correct.

There are many stories across the blogs everyday that never make it to CNN, ABC, etc. An example would be last week when FOX showed Rep. Gov Mark Sanford giving his adultery confession speech, they listed is name at the bottom of the screen as (D)Mark Sanford (wasn't their first time for this type of propaganda either). Of course, it was all over the left blogs. I noticed however that none of the network news aired it or mentioned that FOX wrongly portrayed him as a Democrat. Does that mean it didn't happen? No.
The GD piece of paper incident supposedly (I wasn't their to hear it personally) in the Oval Office and was confirmed by Doug Thompson who also had 3 people (unnamed for obvious reasons) who said they heard it too. Does that mean it did not happen? We really don't know and that's likely why news networks couldn't air it. Does that mean I pulled the accusation out of thin air? No. It is interesting that Bush or anyone in that office that days has ever denied it.

It is amazing however, that that's the best distraction that you can come up with.

Posted by: andy42302 at June 29, 2009 7:42 AM

"xantl, I guess my response to Karin kinda blows your diatribe out of the water don't it? Or, do I need to prove that 3 major news networks back up Redstate before I'm correct."

No, you just need to link to your source, preferably the poll that Eric is also referencing.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2009 8:37 AM

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2009/06/28/a-tale-of-two-leaders-boehner-v-mcconnell/

Posted by: andy42302 at June 29, 2009 8:59 AM

I know that Eric posted this comment, but with no supporting reference or poll data.
The troll here only has a point if Republicans are going to behave like dimocrats.

Even if Reichert's district was 100% in favor of Cap and Trade...so what? Reichert is a Republican and Republicans, unlike dimocrats should vote on principles and not be voting according to polls or for fear of losing their positions. Especially since they should know that eventually voters will realize they have been duped by propaganda.
That used to be called leadership.

If Republicans are going to vote like dimocrats, then they need to be eliminated from the GOP, since they become worse than useless. They contribute to the stupidity and greed of the left by trying to hold on, when a conservative may be able to take his seat once the voting district wakes up.

Republicans generally police their own and Reichert needs to go.

Reichert's disgusting numbers: (202) 225-7761 (DC)/(206) 275-3438 (District).

Posted by: Fiberal at June 29, 2009 9:01 AM

Andy, please link to the actual poll. Eric's column makes no mention of any citations or references.

Posted by: Anonymous at June 29, 2009 9:28 AM

xantl, I guess my response to Karin kinda blows your diatribe out of the water don't it?
No, it just further proves you're a gullible moron who believes unsourced material that you find on the Internet.

Doug Thompson who also had 3 people (unnamed for obvious reasons) who said they heard it too.

So basically what you're admitting here the reason the story isn't repeated in any news circle is because its unsourced, with a single person attesting to it.

I noticed however that none of the network news aired it or mentioned that FOX wrongly portrayed him as a Democrat.
It's only news worthy to liberal dipshits who hate "faux news" kind of like the type that it made such a big impact on they repeat it online.

It is interesting that Bush or anyone in that office that days has ever denied it.
Obama has not denied claims he was born in Africa. Obama has never denied claims Bill Ayers wrote his biography, Obama never denied he smoked cocaine and had gay sex as claimed by Larry Sinclair.
SO ITS ALL TRUE, ACCORDING TO ANDY!

Hey, I bet this is all the first time we've seen a liberal claim "false, but accurate" right?

Posted by: xantl at June 29, 2009 9:29 AM

xantl, or whoever you are, you called me out that I "invent" stuff. I gave you the info and you're still in denial. You might dispute the accuracy but I'm not the first one to come up with the accusations or figures. Accordingly, all the spin in the world won't change the FACT that you were dead wrong in your accusation that I invented it. Man up chicken.

Posted by: andy42302 at June 29, 2009 12:23 PM

Anon, I don't know the poll. I do know that Eric Erickson is a very credible conservative blogger. Redstate.com is likely the most popular and credible right wing blog on the web or at least among the top. Eric is one of the top guys running it so I'm satisfied his info is accurate. But tell you what, I just bet that if someone were to respond there, or email Eric, I bet he'd gladly provide you with that info.

Posted by: andy42302 at June 29, 2009 12:34 PM

Fiberal, I hear what you're saying and in a perfect world where everything was cut and dry, that would might be acceptable. Your argument that "leadership" should prevail has merit but there's also another side of that coin that's neither liberal or conservative. It's called "representation". So if say, 100% of the constituents want their elected representative to vote for for something they want or don't want and he/she basically says "screw you, I know what's best", then that rep needs to be replaced. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that's the circumstance here. As a matter of fact, my original post wasn't intended to ruffle any feathers. It was simply to show another side of the coin which ultimately would make the GOP stronger. Congressional seats are a pretty valuable commodity and I was only trying to point out that evaluating each of the 8 on their own merit might be better than simply working to punish them all.

Posted by: andy42302 at June 29, 2009 12:57 PM

I gave you the info and you're still in denial.
I must have missed the information you gave me, with a credible source for President Bush saying that the Constitution was "just a goddamn piece of paper" could you repeat it? factcheck.org deny it, so you must have a better source.

Posted by: xantl at June 29, 2009 5:55 PM

xantl says "I must have missed the information you gave me". xantl, I have no control over what you miss, grasp, refuse to see, interpret or fail to. Accordingly, I cannot answer for your shortcomings.

Posted by: andy42302 at June 29, 2009 6:13 PM

andy42302....

Hard to keep up with the action here when I'm constantly on the go...As far as Fox naming Sanford a Demo--they did--I watched it. I E-mailed them right away and called their answer line, but I don't have a lot of pull. I'm sure a bunch of other conservatives did too (to report misinformation, as well to avoid the [now evident] fallout). It didn't take them long to catch it. A couple hours and they apologized. But by then the genie had already found Olbermann.

Posted by: AlphaMail at June 29, 2009 10:11 PM

andy42302 :
Accordingly, I cannot answer.
FIXED it for you. This was your quote, and issue to prove and so far you've failed.

How about you just keep reading unsourced stuff on the Internet and claiming them as true, here are some good starters: "hologram planes did 9/11" "Space lizards live in a bunker under the Denver airport" "Obama was born in Africa, his grandma said"

So you're the guy that keeps the Enquirer in business.

Posted by: xantl at June 30, 2009 6:27 AM

Why would Fox deceive the hard of hearing like that? I mean they refer to Sanford as a Republican in their stories as they read them, but decide to make the deaf believe he's a Democrat by transposing a "D" by his name instead! Are the deaf such a large voting block? It's a conspiracy!! "Faux noise" are attempting to make deaf people think Sanford is a Democrat!!!! I bet they take their orders from the reptoids, or the greys.

Posted by: xantl at June 30, 2009 6:31 AM

That's not the first time FOX has pulled such stunts and I can assure you, it won't be the last.

Posted by: andy42302 at June 30, 2009 8:43 AM

Andy42302,


Sorry for the late response; been indisposed.
So if say, 100% of the constituents want their elected representative to vote for for something they want or don't want and he/she basically says "screw you, I know what's best", then that rep needs to be replaced.
No. Not at all.

In a pure democracy, this would be true. However we live in a Republic (albeit dying) where the rule and misjudgement of the mob can be checked.
One very good example of this point threads the needle pretty tight because he was an exceptional individual, but consider Ronald Reagan: Against almost the entire congress, his own cabinet, the media and a lot of the popular opinion, he held his course on the Soviet Union. Even up to the point where Ted Kennedy went over to Gorbachev and counseled him to hang on because he thought that Reagan would collapse under the public pressure.

But RR didn't. He stood up alone against almost everyone.
Now you can be solid as rock and be wrong; but the one thing a leader should not do, is to rule from the polls.

If RR had done this, the Soviet Union might never have imploded.

And BTW one of the reasons the Soviets were so afraid of RR was not bc of the threat of nuclear war, but bc he fired the Air Traffic Controllers. Although the American public might not have noticed fully, the Soviets understood that this took an inordinate amount of fortitude present in someone who meant what he said.

Compare that to the sorry lot of dimocratic presidents we've had since Reagan.

Posted by: Fiberal at June 30, 2009 4:02 PM

Oh, sorry about the "lot" of dimocratic presidents; I keep forgetting that George HW and a lot of W Bush weren't technically dimocrats.

Posted by: Fiberal at June 30, 2009 4:07 PM

"government intrusiveness reaching extremes undreamt of by Stalin"

Just say it w/o the obfuscation: "I never read any history." This hinting with absurd statements like this is so unneccessary.

Posted by: brs at June 30, 2009 7:59 PM