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I would like to see the research that led to this conclusion. I wonder if it is as substantial as that of Michael Bellesiles, who fraudulently claimed that he had research proving that firearms were rare in early America.

That Indian children were adopted into male households would also strongly suggest that the settlers found an outlet other than buggery for their sexual energy.

no, no, no, the early settlers were all-American, beer guzzling, stock car race watching, tobacco chewing real men.

what these books fail to document is that these men, in the absence of white women, where boinking all the native-american squaws they could catch.

Typical liberal BS, if the past isn't what you want it to be just rewrite it. Further proof that liberalism is a mental illness. Conservatives need to find a cure and soon. There are already way too many 'liberal zombies' populating this country and some have even been elected to positions of power.

In 1624 Richard Cornish was hanged in Jamestown for sodomy with an indentured servant. Doesn't sound to me like homosexuality was an accepted practice, if they were hanging people for it. Sounds like his arguments are based on his own sick daydreams, not any real evidence.

"transgender lesbian feminists"....who were enslaved and forcibly brought to our shores from their native Polynesia, after suffering irreparable emotional trauma from their forced conversion to Christianity....But then at Plymouth they ran away and were cured by Native American shamans who took them out of the closet and empowered them....

You know, I feel so much better since my Obamatomy (replacement of brain with multicultural, PC memory chips).

Yeah, but remember you guys, there's no such thing as PC. Brandon said so.

I see Mr. Kramer has a bright future on 'Fresh Air with Terry Gross', 'All Things Considered', and a guest shot on "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me". The NPR Trifecta is in his future. What a brave and scholarly fellow.

This is just junk. Years ago I read a book by a Prof at UCLA about what were called berdeche amoung Native Americans. A berdeche was a gay Indian and they existed but in very small numbers. The Prof who was a miltant homosexual now deceased of AIDS, in justifing what he believed was larger percentage of berdeche than was real, claimed that cowboys, early settlers, artic explorers were all largely gay. He also concluded that the pirates were gay. In fact his statement was that there was no evidence that any pirate ever raped a female captive and when they were ashore the maintained the same partners as they had on the ship. So his conclusion was that pirate were a homosexual community.

This is so stupid Jamestown was a largely male community becuase woman died early and there are a whole lot of Native Americans in PA, MD and VA who trace their ancestery to the original settlers. One of the reason that the early settlers tended to violence was that they had lots of restless sexual energy.

Jamestown was largely male because a lot of the colonists were soldiers, put there in anticipation of a Spanish attack that never materialized. The Spanish and the English weren't exactly buddies in 1608.

When homosexuality is shown to be biological, how will you reconcile the lord's insistence that we stone homosexuals in the old testament?

Brandon:

Have you a point that that has anything to do with the story above? How do you reconcile the Lord banning the consumption of fish without scales, and pork, when catfish and ham biscuits are just so doggone tasty?

so the stock werent really a punishment, they were really as they are today a sexual toy for those with exibitionist maschistic tendencies and square shoe buckles.

the idiot is revisioning history from a gay mans perspective.

ie.

i haev no self control ergo i cant believe they had self control. so they didnt have self control and instead the lied.

ah.. they were starting a new country in a land with no law... they could have pretended they were tibierius at the weekly forum sex show and no one would have cared!!!! (they werent worried they owuld be outed to their parents by a phone call home. hi, mrs torry... yes. i like to tell you your son is now Xing richard)

of course this is in a long line of made up revisionist dsconstruction work from the ideas of the franfurt school..

goes back to claiming jesus was a homosexual cause he had males for the disciples.

ya know the funny thing... they dont like to be mislabled, but they mislabel any group of men as benig really secretly gay (displacement and projection). but if the men are defensive to be labeled something they are not. then they are homophobic. in this way, they have to stand still and be mislabled.

funny funny..

ya want to know why all this points on gay?

cause china elite used nothing but eunichs as their main workers. it was a better way to create dynasty since the eunics and gays could not procreate.. hard to have a dynsasty when others are inserting their genes into your legacy..

When homosexuality is shown to be biological, how will you reconcile the lord's insistence that we stone homosexuals in the old testament?

I recently read an article about research that proves homosexuality is NOT biologically caused.
You're taking the Bible out of context.

my history book says that the colony at Jamestown died out - cause & effect++

Because men lack enough women they turn homosexual? I've heard this argument made to justify rape in prisons. Rubbish! If Looking at a mans hairy butt gives you a stiffy, you are a homosexual, a stiffy doesn't lie and cannot be rationalized away.

So it's reasonable to assume that otherwise straight men would have turned to homosexuality, and then somehow got their hands on native children to complete their homosexual family after the fact...

...but it never occurs to anybody that maybe they could have got their hands on *adult* *female* natives, instead?

I suppose its possible the lord made homosexuals after the new testament, when the he became a bit more liberal and made that agreement with jesus that we didn't have to stone them anymore.

it seems the whole point of this post is based on a disgust of homosexuals and frustration that someone speculated about Jamestown having homosexuals. I guess I find it silly to argue about that but underlying it, the core issue is important - are homosexuals immoral? The continuous stream of posts attacking anything having to do with homosexuality makes it clear people here do think homosexuality is immoral, which I find not only absurd but dangerous because as soon as you think someone is immoral, it makes it easy to dehumanize them attack them in all sorts of ways.

if you want something more relavent to the original post, I'll say that historically when men are grouped together without women there has been homosexuality, sailors and prisoners being the best examples (how do you think so many gays ended up in San Fransisco? The navy brought them there).

Typical Liberal Article

Innuendo, suggestions, assumptions and hints everywhere but not ONE BLEEPING shred of proof ANYWHERE IN IT!

But hey its 'possible' and it fits a liberal belief in the world SO IT MUST BE TRUE!!!

Brandon:

As you will believe that thinking someone immoral is 'dangerous' (but it cannot be 'immoral', QED), there must be no evil, no immorality, in your world. It sounds like a nice place, but it begs the question, why do you defend the Liberal view so strenuously? Everyone is on the same moral plane, per your argument.

When homosexuality is shown to be biological...

How simple-minded does one have to be to have absolute confidence that something as complex as human sexuality is determined solely by one genetic on-off switch?

...but it never occurs to anybody that maybe they could have got their hands on *adult* *female* natives, instead?

Actually, I'm living proof that this indeed did happen. One of my earliest traceable ancestors was a full blood Cherokee Indian that one of my forefathers took as his wife after coming to America from Europe.

And why not? Those Native girls are HOT.

It is difficult to believe that a group of young and notoriously unbridled men remained celibate for an extended period of time. It seems likely that some male settlers deprived of female companionship would have turned to each other instead.

So what’s he saying – homosexuality is learned, and volitional, not innate?

When homosexuality is shown to be biological

Brandon must’ve missed the memo, but I understand. It's so confusing keeping up with liberal memes. Just remember, we've always been at war with Oceania.

In the absence of any evidence what-so-ever, Larry Kramer declares Jamestown: Sodom. Using that same logic, and in the absence of any evidence what-so-ever, I am declaring Barack Obama: The Smartest President, ever!

I've been reading quite a bit of local history, since moving to Isle of Wight county (near Smithfield), VA about 2.5 yrs ago... or about 30 miles across the James River from Jamestown. This includes some books recently written by descendants of some of the native people in this area. The strong impression I have of that early history is:

1. the place was very crowded with Natives, several tribes. A lot of inter-tribal fighting because of it, resources were getting scarce and the area had been experiencing some bad drought.

2. much of the time, prior to the settlers getting wiped out, they were sick &/or starving. Locals traded for corn for a time, but later it was not willingly traded due to that extended period of drought and poor harvest. it was already affecting the tribes that were here before those settlers came, and some of the smaller tribes have traded themselves (pretty much volunteered slavery) into the larger, more powerful ones... to survive.

Now, how many people have sex on their mind when they are sick & starving?

And yup, plenty of women available... altho they may or may not have been interested. Remember the settlers were not only strangers invading their land including murdering & stealing but they did not understand the tribes customs and manners and were thought of as dirty & stinky. It certainly was not in the English culture to wash a lot in those days, and I understand some of the natives were offended by that. So much of their excess sexuality may have been in the form of rape.

Sound about right to you? ~

the biology remark was meant to be taken as pure antagonistic conjecture, in that funny sort of way that's impossible to communicate through the internet. Obviously I understand you wouldn't take my word on it.

When it comes to morality, the only guiding principal I can find is to do no wrong to others, wrong meaning to limit their freedom, damage their health, take their property, or restrict their pursuit of happiness in any other way. I understand that this relies on my faith in the value of the individual, and so this basic belief is held a priori (self evident) but I also know that if I was born in a place with different beliefs, I would probably follow those beliefs and think them to be superior - which is the basic chink in my armor which motivates me to find the elusive truth.

When I respond to attacks on homosexuality, I'm not motivated out of some loyalty to liberal ideals, I'm first and foremost trying to find that elusive truth. I have been constantly accused of blindly believing the liberal 'memes', but that's silly, if I wanted to be a partisan or a party loyalist I would just find the choir and preach.

Maybe homosexuality is immoral, maybe my concept of morality is flawed. I find self deception to be rampant amongst all ideologies and therefore I submit my thoughts not to those who agree, but to those who disagree so that my flaws are not disregarded.

I enjoy the debate as sport, and I'm extremely curious how people come to form strongly held beliefs in an uncertain world.

Brandon = butt pirate.

He loves the Hershey Hiway!

For liberals its "all gay all the time": From Pilgrims to Lincoln to Bush...as long as it may impugn or revise American history.

But no major works on Muslim homosexuality? Which by some accounts is somewhat notorious amoungst misogynous, sexually-repressed populations.

Maybe its actually not homosexuality that excites liberals as much as America-bashing.
Well...Now there's a thought to write down somewhere.

Brandon, fair enough. I think the point is that we're tired of hearing about homosexuality all the time. Homosexuals can go do what they want to do, but we'd ask them just to keep it to themselves, and don't prance around making a big deal out of it all the time. It's abnormal, somewhat repellent, and distastful to contemplate, and is in general no more appropriate a topic for conversation than, e.g., yeast infections or explosive diarrhea. They're all things that exist, but that we'd rather not think about any more than absolutely necessary.

Right, here's a continent full of free loving native women that could be had for a few beads. They speak the language, cook, clean, plant crops, watch the kids, don't complain, never ask 'What are you thinking?' or 'do I look fat in this?' and all it takes is some K-mart jewelery once in a while? You expect me to believe those bearded hairy old timers were butt-fkin each other because they were lacking Brit babes? Methinks they were lackin Brit babes for a reason; they left the naggin witches back home and had no intention of bringin' them here.

Once they got the fermentation process down pat and trained the squaws to run the still, it was just huntin and fishin all day and drinkin and screwin all night.

Bwandon sweetie- Homosexuality isn't "biological". All attempts by the colon stretchers to legitimize their disease is pseudo-science. Much like man-made GW (or, as it has been renamed by MINITRU, "Climate Change"). Homosexuality is a mental illness, and a fetish. It is a form of Fecophilia.

This is nothing new. Liberals have been rewriting history for years to attempt to bend reality in order to justify their broken moral compasses.

Even Jesus was a homosexual. Just ask a liberal.

One thing they'll all discover 'in the end' (pun intended): Truth is Truth and no amount of revisionist history can change it. They're only hiding from themselves. Truth will triumph.

Will these children ever GROW UP!? This is just another plot to SHOCK the sane world because they are 'rebels" and they don't live by anyone's rules, blah blah, blah. Hey lefties - your diapers are leaking!

I was relieved to see that my home state of California with a $20B deficit is funding this fine research. And having attended the University of California I can attest that this type of material is not only par for the course, it would be considered esoteric and insightful.

But you know, it's really Republicans who are trying to destroy education.

A total disgrace amonst those magificent historic buildings dirty liberal scum they realy deserve to be tarred and feathered

Did you notice Yasser died of AIDS shortly after smoking that cigar I used... er SMOKED (he-he) with Monica!

Pure coinsidence. He-he.

You folks are sucking er... barking like an intern up the wrong tree. There were PLENTY of squaws to use... er 'love' back then. He-he.

And I should add they were bred to submit. Not like Hillary who threw another lamp at me last night. Bitch. She just doesn't feel my PAIN! Bitch. He-he.

Give me $100,000 and I'll show up and speak to your group for a half hour. (You also pay all expenses.) As long as there's an open bar. And interns - He-he *wink* *wink*

Hey - I was PRESIDENT! I am a man of honor! He-he. How about those Bosnians, huh? He-he. And I don't tak asprin - so what he heck He-he.

I love being a liberal. I'm always right! And history will be revised to prove it! Just visit my libery, er libRAry... he-he.

I feel your pain!!

Umm... You guys are aware that the Pilgrims didn't actually land at Jamestown, aren't you?

Geeze, I'm an Australian and we all know that!

And yup, plenty of women available... altho they may or may not have been interested. Remember the settlers were not only strangers invading their land including murdering & stealing but they did not understand the tribes customs and manners and were thought of as dirty & stinky. It certainly was not in the English culture to wash a lot in those days, and I understand some of the natives were offended by that. So much of their excess sexuality may have been in the form of rape.

Sound about right to you? ~

No.

Early settlers were thought of more like a migratory tribe. They moved in, did some trading, made peace with some tribes and war with others. It wouldn't be for another 100 years that they would present a unified, serious threat.

Also, it wasn't in ANYBODY'S culture to wash alot back then. Or be kind to women. Didn't really matter where you were from.

I think the mixing theory has too much evidence behind it to just handwave away (especially in lieu of a gay pilgrim theory). Every white person I know has at least 1 indian in their family tree, and some DNA studies show some east coast tribes are more white than native(!)

alex- what are you going on about? No-one mentioned "Pilgrims", except Fiberal, in an indirect reference to US History in general. And no-one stated that "The Pilgrims landed at Jamestown". I weep for Australia's youth. I really do. Should never have let the moonbats disband the Cadet Corps. Nothing reduced the ratio of boofheads from the population than live grenades and mortars in the hands of young teens.

Van Helsing refers to "Pilgrims" in the opening piece, but is an indirect association.

Everything he says is "Pilgrims". Pilgrims this, Pilgrims that. Maybe that's an American thing, that you refer to all your early colonists as "Pilgrims," just for convenient shorthand. I know you guys have a Thanksgiving Holiday based on the Pilgrims (among other things) and that when teaching kids about your early roots you seem to emphasise the Mayflower and Plymouth Rock more than anything else. Fair enough.

But seeing as we're on the topic now: I have often been shocked by the number of average Americans I've met (and I know a great many) who know so little about your own nation's wonderful history. That's more an indictment on your leftist education system than anything else (we have a similar problem developing over here). Yet every Australian teenager knows what the initials "FDR" stand for, or how long the Civil War lasted, or who shot Lincoln, or what "No Taxation Without Representation!" means. That's only the basics of American history, I'll admit that - but the sad thing is, many of your own citizens aren't even being taught this stuff in school anymore. And when they are, it's only so that the teacher can tell the children how racist Washington was, how Jefferson had a black concubine - and now, how the early settlers at Jamestown were all homosexual. Stand up! Raise your voice!

I don't know what part of my comment gave you cause to "weep for Australia's youth." And I was in the Cadet Corps, by the way. But they never let us handle grenades...

Alex, you're right, alot of people here are very stupid and uninformed. Look how we elected an American Idol contestant for prez.
I think we all need to home-school our kids and grandkids on nights and weekends to 1) unravel any indoctrination that's occured during the day, and 2) learn stuff.

To Jay G from above: Good post, and I fully agree, well said. Why do we have to hear about this stuff 24/7? The rest of us don't go on and on about our sex lives. Gay people: Shut up already!

Dont you know? All college fraternities and sororities are full of gays and lesbians. In fact anyone who has ever been involved with any group that all male or all female (including sports teams) are homosexual. Ever seen a dude that looks like a lady from the back and said, she looks hot? Youre gay! Same goes for a woman who sees a butch lesbian from the back. All male military combat units? Yep, all gay! All those guys on submarine duty stuck under water for months at a time? Why do you think they call them semen? Know what, everyone is gay, they just dont know it yet.

Ironically I am exposed to more homosexual material on this website here than anywhere else, unless you count bumper stickers

also i love how the speculation of one person is twisted to represent the beliefs of and entire group. This is one of the common logical flaws people use to attack groups - you take all the worst beliefs and behaviors of individuals or small groups, lump them together and give it a name.

RE: Posted by: Brandon at May 22, 2009 12:48 PM

Our bud Brandon says, "(A)lso i love how the speculation of one person is twisted to represent the beliefs of and entire group. This is one of the common logical flaws people use to attack groups - you take all the worst beliefs and behaviors of individuals or small groups, lump them together and give it a name."

Yes, I agree with you. Liberals really SHOULD stop doing that to all those gun-totin' knuckle-draggin' Bilble-thumpin' racist xenophobic Right-wing members of the evil Rovian VRWC. After all, they're all just a bunch of unedumecated Rednaaacks.

I agree completely.

It's funny that all that crap, including the liberal crap, ignores the fact that there are real differences that can be discussed argued and fight over.

Getting back on topic, what we are talking about here is another blantant Homoleftist attempt to re-write history to further their agenda. There is a small but highly vocal and militant group of "activists" that are doing their best to create historical precedents for homosexuality. This is just one of many examples - they're even trying to tell us that Abraham Lincoln was "gay".

History isn't the only thing they are trying to rewrite - not even literary characters are safe. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's beloved Holmes and Watson are even under attack.

There are a lot more examples where that comes from, too. The Left is building an entire industry around altering, erasing, and rewriting our history, and they are doing it on multiple fronts and to forward a wide range of agendas.

A classic example from earlier in this century was disgraced Emory University professor of history Dr. Michael A. Bellesiles' book "Arming America, The Origins of a National Gun Culture". This was lauded as a masterful piece of scholarship, and Bellesiles was given numerous awards. It was later revealed to be a fraud - not just bad scholarship, but in many cases Bellesiles' arguments were fabricated out of thin air. Even worse, he rejected or hid anything that ran contrary to the agenda he was trying to further.

The Loopy, Loony, Lemming Like Lying Leftist Liberal Losers want to talk about having a "debate" about these things.

No, I don't think so - it's a lot simpler than that. There is such a thing as right and wrong. We need to soundly reject this nonsense, and heap upon the liars that do it the scorn and humiliation they deserve.

I love this site and pretty much agree with everybody except Brandon.

But, hey, Shooter, could ya remember that many of us on here are women and there's no reason to insult us so much?

Ya insulted my great x's 10 granny, who was NOT left behind in Britain because of her nagging. And you insulted a lotta Indian women, too. I'm the last person to be called PC, but since women are a big part of the conservative movement, think you could muster up a little respect for us?

Much appreciated.

speaking of Women, a lot of what they do grosses me out and I find it disgusting. They have sex with men, something that would probably make me puke if I thought about doing it myself.