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Even more amazing is how many Catholics vote DEMOCRAT.

Outrageous! They are trying to decapitate and laicize our church! The Church hasn't seen heretics this brazen since the Arian crisis. I wonder how long before American Catholics will need to go underground?

Have the demacratic donkey crusified and leave its miserble carcass for the buzzards although they might reject the stinkin cadaver

Its just an excuse to shoehorn in gays like Barney Faaa...Frank so his friends can become Priests and bugger more little boys. BF will probably push for the same thing in Molestachussetts.

as of noon today the hearing was abruptly cancelled and the bill shelved. Funny how quickly they ran for hills when they got word that most of the parishes, schools and organizations were sending BUSES to Hartford on Wednesday.

But don't be fooled this is not over by a long shot

The Catholic church is the largest single voice for defense of marrige and life in the state and these two want to silence it. If they do then...

WHO'S NEXT?

Again, read the law. It doesn't force anything. It allows members of the Catholic Church to ask the bishop for permission to set up an oversight committee. The members don't have to ask. The bishop can disallow the action. The government isn't involved beyond receiving some forms that most businesses routinely file.

Read things before you go flying off like this.

I am not flying off of anything. The bill plainly states in its title (a) A corporation may be organized in connection with any Roman Catholic Church. This is singling out one religion. Laws like this are unconstitutional, and lawmakers that even consider crap like this should be rode out of town on a rail and tarred and feathered!

Hey anon at 12:25... no one's flying off the handle... we're just not putting our heads in the sand like you are obviously doing(and adamantly wanting us to do, I might add... hmmmmm). A well-informed populace is a well-armed populace.

I know Anonymous, but WHY is the Catholic Church being singled out like this for government beaurocracy and redtape? It is un-American and unconstitutional. Why not the Muslims, Jews,
Protestants, Buddhists, Confusists?

Hey, NewtownMark, I used to live in Brookfield. I lived there 12 years. Why is CT so moonbatty? Note to lurking lefty trolls: The next time you bitch about how all republicans are rich and all rich people are republicans, let me point out to you: Connecticut, Manhattan, Hollywood.

Karin,

I've been in CT since 88 and have seen the ever increasing NY influence in the area. With it comes more lefties and really bad drivers!

Where did you escape too?

If this bill is so voluntary, if the churches "may" ask to set this up, or not, then what is the purpose of the law? The church may set itself up that way already if it wants to, right? And why did they run back under the fridge when the lights came on? Seems like these jackasses are trying to get away with as much as they can, hoping there's so much going on all the time that people stop paying attention.

Don't try to kid me this isn't anti-Catholic. I'm from Belfast. But maybe it will be OK. Catch this.
"At a press conference this morning at the legislative office building, Tom Gallagher of Greenwich, who has long advocated that lay people be given greater responsibilities within the church, said he has asked Rep. Michael Lawlor and Sen. Andrew McDonald, co-chairmen of the legislature's judiciary committee, to put off the hearing until Attorney General Richard Blumenthal has reviewed the matter."

Lawlor and McDonald agreed. "At the request of the proponents who are advocating this legislation, we have decided to cancel the public hearing for tomorrow [and] table any further consideration of this bill for the duration of this session,'' the lawmakers said in a joint statement.

It's still sheer lunacy. If you're unhappy with your church, wouldn't you take it up with your church? Switch churches? Why run to your legislators? What's gotten into the water in CT? Greenwich people are the worst of the bunch.

NewtownMark, I'm in the tundra of northern NY now. From one blue state to another. Aside from the blue-ness, I really, really liked CT, and your town as well. How's the flagpole?

So when is the state of Connecticut going to get involved in ISLAM and force their religion to hold these type of meetings?

Karin,

The flagpole is still standing - with an American flag - for now. The town has grown over the past decade though.

As for Greenwich, they used to be the captains of industry - now they are just the moneychangers.

I'm a person of faith myself, but faith and politics don't mix. I always knew the evangelicals were going to ruin it for the rest of us by overstepping their bounds and getting involved in politics and trying to "bring America back to Christ." Guess what, this isn't the Middle East. I saw this coming a mile away.

If it hadn't been for Prop 8, maybe the Church would actually get some sympathy for this. But they won't, because everyone is going to say "You guys think it's fine to impose religion on the state, but not the state on religion. You don't get it both ways." And they're right.

The public has turned against us. And it's the evangelicals fault. If you'd just worried about your own parishes instead of trying to impose religious beliefs on ALL Americans, there wouldn't be this public backlash. Americans are turning against religion.

The evangelical movement is the worst thing to happen to Christians in the last few centuries. We will be as faithless as Europe within decades, and tax exempt statuses for Churches will likely diappear within a decade.

Let this be a lesson to you. Stay out of politics if you want politics to stay out of religion.

"Leftists hate Christianity because it is a bastion against the moral corruption that facilitates totalitarianism."

LOL, yeah, like that good old Catholic Church, which covered up pedophilia for decades and allowed pedophiles to continue to administer to children.

Yes, truly they are the shining example of a bastian against moral corruption.

Do you people even HEAR yourselves when you talk?

"Its just an excuse to shoehorn in gays like Barney Faaa...Frank so his friends can become Priests and bugger more little boys"

Uh, the church hierarchy knew all about the pedophilia and did nothing. And not just in Massachusetts, all around the nation. The leaders knew, and they covered it up, and they put thousands of children at risk.

Or maybe we should be more like the evangelicals? We can do some meth and fuck prostitutes just like evangelical leaders do!

At least Barney Frank has the balls to admit he's gay. You guys have to go to airport bathrooms to get your rocks off.

Oh, and then there's that study that found that Utah buys the most pornography in the nation!! Those Godly Mormons.

You bastions of morality you!

The thing is, you guys have it all wrong.

Many people DO hate organized religion now. But only because religion is the only way you can get away with evil shit and no one makes you pay for it.

If ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION other than a religion had had the pedophilia scandal occur, they would be completely shut down and their leaders jailed. No non religious organization would EVER have gotten away with decades of covering up raping kids. No way, no how. But oh, because it's a RELIGION, then it's not so bad, for some reason.

If the head of a day care center had turned a blind eye the way Catholic bishops and Cardinals did, they'd be in jail, not JUST the priests who actually did the molesting.

And as a Native American, I can tell you why some of US hate Christianity...because you raped, defiled and killed our entire civilization in the name of Christ. Sorry if we just can't get past that. I know our utter annihilation must seem really petty. That's why you can still claim you're the bastions of morality even though systematically destroyed my entire race.

Harn - WE ARE THE PUBLIC but the media would lead you to believe that we're not!

Anon 2:58 & 3:07 As a Catholic I can admit that the church made mistakes in dealing with predtory homosexual priests and I will also say that every institution has issues, school systems (oopps can't criticize the school system), gay brothels being run out of US reps townhouses (sorry - did it again) anyway you get the point.

As for the Utah porn thing - I read a study that it was Florida or maybe Califoria or Mass - you get that point also. Easy to throw around things when you sign anonymus.

Anon 3:29

The NYC school system had 1,400 reported cases of sexual abuse between students and staff, faculty and administrators in 2004 ALONE. They were not shut down, in fact I bet you didn't even read about it in the Times. I read it in the FBI annual consolidated crime stats. The unions have done a really good job keeping that little piece quiet.

Really - get your facts staight

I've got to slow down when I type - I keep missing letters!

NewtonMark,
My grandmother is the product of rape. HER mother, like most of her generation, was forcibly taken from her Native American family and tribe and placed by the US government into a Christian run school for the forced assimilation of Native Americans.

After being kidnapped from their tribe, the boys were used for slave labor and the girls were used as fuck buddies for your supposedly holy missionaries.

Don't you ever fucking EVER say you are the bastions of morality. Christians are responsible for the largest genocide in the history of the world.

If I could cut open my veins and drain out the blood in me that is Christian, I would do it in a heartbeat.

I know nothing of your Christ. But his followers have visited more misery upon this earth- be it in the crusades, the inquisition, or the conquest of the Americas- then any other demographic in the history of the world.

I think the most pathetic thing of all is that when you say you're the bastions of immorality, you actually believe it.

Its all about gay rights and abortion.

And Newton-
Sex abuse is going to happen. bI don't think that's unique to the Catholic Church. I do NOT blame the church for individual priests molesting kids.

But they covered it up, and they allowed priests to continue administering, and administering TO CHILDREN for years. THAT is what only a religion could get away with.

Posted by: Anonymous at March 10, 2009 12:46 PM

Did I ask you to bury your head in the sand? I told you to READ THE LAW and inform yourself. Did you think before you wrote?

"If this bill is so voluntary, if the churches "may" ask to set this up, or not, then what is the purpose of the law? The church may set itself up that way already if it wants to, right?"

Right. It could also choose to hide its finances, conceal criminal behaviour, and be completely opaque to its members. Now, I don't think the state legislature is the appropriate venue to force greater transparency out of a church. However, this is hardly the "thinly-veiled attempt to silence the Catholic Church" that it is characterized as.

That whole article was simply the cry of "We don't want the truth to be known! Bias, bias!" that I see you guys so consistently railing against. Hypocrites, the lot of you.

Anon,

You said "I know nothing of your Christ".

Well, how about learning. You will then find that while many Christians don't act in a Christ like manner, the huge percentage do (or at least try to). The bad press gets all the press, or haven't you noticed.

You should also check your facts. It has been the god-less nations that have killed more people than at any time in history (Stalin, Pol pot, Hitler etc etc).

"If we add the figures, we find that the entire Inquisition of 500 years, caused about 6,000 deaths. These atrocities are completely inexcusable. These numbers are however, a far cry from the those used in the popular press by people who are always looking to destroy the Church. This is about equal to the number of war related deaths that have occurred in Afghanistan and Iraq in the 2 years since the US responded to 9/11."

I am no Catholic, and what that church did was indefensible, and completely opposite to the teachings of Christ.

You should try and separate man-made churches from the Church of Christ.

"Harn at March 10, 2009 2:56 PM"

God, I hope I'm not related to a lying idiot like you!

It's the LIBERALS in politics who want to dictate to the religous, and say (as do people like yourself) that religous people should have no say in politics. Yet they will support REVEREND Jessie Jackson and hang on his every word.

RAAAAACIST!!!

"NewtownMark at March 10, 2009 3:30 PM"

Right. Unfortunatly, the Church had handled the pedophile disaster as well as the DONKEY PARTY did!

"Anonymous at March 10, 2009 3:38 PM"

Oh, BOO-FRIGGING-HOO!
You're SO VERY WELCOME for thanking us for bringing your people out of the STONE AGE!

From your tone and words, I would be willing to bet that you are a WHITE LIBERAL posing as an indian. I have heard that song and dance too many times, it always came from natives who learned their "heritage" from HOLLYWOOD. they thought that the American indian was the origonal HIPPIE MOVEMENT.

What a bunch of idiots!

Yeah, I know that natives were taken to missionary schools. Know why? Because their PARENTS wanted them to get out of DIRT and become aclimated with the FUTURE! Idiots like you would have your people chaseing eachother around with stone hammers. Which reminds me, if the "white man's ways" are soooo EEEVIL, why was the Whinchester adopted?

More bad news for you, buster; I have some "red" blood in me, too! What were MY indian ancestors doing before Hernado De Soto came? They were KILLING other INDIANS, takeing their LAND, and making SLAVES of the survivors!

So don't give me that Liberal revisionist crap, whitey brought civilization, progress and FREEDOM to this continent.

Aussie John,


Why would I have any interest in Christianity, when the Christian God has no interest in my people? In his Holy book, he made no mention of us, though over a hundred million of us existed in the Americas, yet there is no mention of our existance. Not one word. He sent no profits or holy men to our lands. Why on Earth would I have interest in a God that has no interest in me?

"I would be willing to bet that you are a WHITE LIBERAL posing as an indian"

woah, sound a little paranoid there, white man.

Is Ted Haggard over there with you smoking some meth and sucking your dick?

Pssst, that liberal boogy monster in your closet who keeps telling you to feed him your cat is all in your head, dude. Seriously. Lay off the pipe.

And of course I'm not saying non Christians haven't committed atrocities, or that Christians themselves haven't been victims of atrocities, or that all or even most Christians are anything but good people.

What ENRAGES me is that you actually believe that you are a 'moral bastion" when NOTHING in your history suggest that. You rape, murder, commit adultery, use drugs, steal, etc just like everyone else. You have absolutely no business claiming to be the moral authority in the world. Christians have proven themselves to be no better people than anyone else.

Rather that should read: that some or even most Christians

I call bullshit on 100 million indigenous savages---AKA "American Indians"--being present in North America in the 17th century. You are entitled to your own atrophied, incorrect opinion, but making up shit doesn't support your case at all.

On the other hand, there may well have been 100 million of your worthless forebears in "the Americas," but the descendants of those simpletons are still trying to feed themselves by digging grubs and crapping on tadpoles.

Whatever. Your misplaced pride in your heritage is charming, but Injuns were nothing but ignoble savages who trashed the environment, killed each other with gleeful abandon, and developed a method to knap flint...then gave up. In short, they were unambitious efftards, just like you. Congrats! You've reached the limit of your DNA!

"Anonymous at March 10, 2009 5:45 PM"

That's right, avoid the subject. That's a tactic taught to your kind by COMMUNISTS. Thyat's right COMMUNISTS, more evil from WHITE EUOPEANS!

You are a HYPOCRIT! Now gop back to the reservation and make a tepee. You know, because EVERY indian lived in a tepee. It has to be true, because HOLLYWOOD told us so and I've known a lot you YOUR KIND who believed it and called me a lier and threatened me when I told them about wikkiups and hogans.

"Don't you ever fucking EVER say you are the bastions of morality. Christians are responsible for the largest genocide in the history of the world."
No, false Christians who might claim Christ but have hearts that are FAR apart from Him cause genocide. Plus, as others here pointed out, it was secular rulers like Hitler and pretty much every Communist dictator who have been responsible for more bloodshed, yet those atrocities are largely ignored by liberals so they can focus more on attacking Christians! It's the same reason why the liberal media loves reporting on sexual abuses in the Catholic Church (I'm Protestant, btw, and not overly fond of the Catholic Church), yet gives as little coverage as possible to incidents of sexual abuse in public schools.
You cannot blame the Christian faith as a whole, or claim that all Christians are hypocrites no better than anyone else, simply based on the actions of a few false Christians who (Unless they repented of their hideous acts before dying) are undoubtedly roasting in Hell right now for perverting the Word and will of God to justify their ungodly actions.

btw, I am truly sorry for what has happened to your people in the past. It is inexcusable, and remains one of the darkest parts of our nation's history.
However, you shouldn't keep holding grudges against a group of people for what happened almost 200 years ago, that's no way to live. I mean, my own ancestors include a family of settlers who were butchered by Indians (Only their young son survived, because he had hidden when it happened), yet I feel no anger for that offense towards Native- Americans today.
Plus, there were plenty of white Christians who helped Native Americans. For instance, I take it you are familiar with the Sand Creek Massacre, an incident symbolic of how inhuman our treatment of Native Americans was. However, what is not widely known is that Captain Silas Soule, a white Christian man, was there, and not only did he refuse to take part in the massacre or let the troops under his command do so, he also later publicly spoke out against John Chivington for what had happened that day (So much so that Chivington's supporters eventually had Soule assassinated). It was because of people like Cpt. Soule and a few others who were there and refused to participate in the slaughter that the American public realized that what had happened at Sand Creek was not the noble battle that Chivington and his supporters made it out to be.
"Why would I have any interest in Christianity, when the Christian God has no interest in my people? In his Holy book, he made no mention of us, though over a hundred million of us existed in the Americas, yet there is no mention of our existance."
With all due respect, that's not a very convincing argument to make. In fact, it's a rather petty one. White people aren't in the Bible, either, yet I am a white man who is a Christian (An aspiring minister, in fact), because I know God loves all men, regardless of race.
Please, don't turn your back on God based on the actions of a few monsters who falsely claimed to be His followers.

Anonymous,

You said "Why would I have any interest in Christianity, when the Christian God has no interest in my people?"

Jesus said: Matthew 28:1 "8Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

Try again....

KHarn, you're in rare form today. Really? Bashing Native Americans because they had less technology then Europeans at that moment in history? Believing a person's ability is determined by one's race? That's a bit extreme, even for you.

What happened to the Native Americans was very advantageous... for the white Europeans. For the natives, not so much.

Hey, let's not forget China! Missionaries had unfettered access there for at least a century, and what did they do? Break statues, loot temples, burn books. If Native Americans and the Chinese of today are anti-Christian, they don't have to look any farther then the Christians' own actions for good reasons.

Payback's a bitch, isn't it, ladies?

You could have just left well enough alone. Just kept your religious beliefs inside your church. But no. That wasn't good enough. You decided to enforce YOUR religious beliefs on others, and you passed Prop 8.

Did you honestly think there wouldn't be any consequences? Really?

We didn't start this war, but we're going to finish it. You come after OUR way of life and then you whine like little babies when we come after YOURS. It's self defense, sorry.

When the gays were protesting legal action against them, your lot called them whiners. Well, who's the whiners now? You claim that homosexuality is a choice. Well, religion is SURELY more of a choice than homosexuality is. So why are you WHINING about this. If you have a problem with how you're treated, just don't be Catholic and there won't be a problem. You tell us don't be gay, so don't be Catholic. Problem solved. If you CHOOSE to be Catholic and don't like your treatment, you're just a whiney little bitch, according to your own philosophy.

That's the problem with going after people's rights with the assumption you'll always be in power. If you're ever driven from the top, you're toast.

And yes, I realize that this was instigated by a parishoner. And it shouldn't pass, as it seems unconstitutional.

But my point is that after what you did, if you expect people to do anything but laugh at you when you scream separation of church and state, you're just morons. You are in NO position to be playing victims.

Now you know how we feel. Not so funny when what you inflict on others is turned around on you, is it?

well, will ANYONE answer the question?

when do they plan to do the same thing to islam?

Posted by: Anonymous at March 10, 2009 9:34 PM

Umm... When an Islamic dude writes his state senator complaining about all the molesting and racketeering his church is doing?

Context, man, context.

Big Gay Al,
A bit off topic but...

Haven't you ever thought that just maybe you were a sinner? Haven't you ever thought that the body wasn't designed for same sex relations? That homosexuality is not what God made the body for?

As a Christian, I am aware of my sins against God, and eternity is a long time to spend away from God's presence. Christians will tell you this because they don't want you to go to hell. The worst thing they could do is not tell you about God's grace.

This article must have been posted somewhere really filthy... look at how many maggots it attracted.

BIG GAY AL at March 10, 2009 7:29 PM

We supported what happened in CA, because we wanted to keep your laws off our religion. Otherwise, within one month, we would have been treated to the following:

Some Extremist (I use the word literally) Gay Rights group would have organized a "sting" operation, where a gay couple would have approached a Religious Leader who fit fit the following criteria:

1. Known and outspoken opponent of Gay Rights.
2. Christian.
3. Not too bright, or politically adept.

Then after requesting his presiding over their marriage ceremony, and being refused (preferably in a messy and loud fashion), they would have sued him for Discrimination. Effects of such ranging from revokation of ordination (possible) to arrest for refusal to follow the shiny new law (remote chance).

In other words, if you want our religion off your laws, keep your laws off our religion.

P.S. Why don't you ask why these "advocate" groups don't push for something sensible? Like a civil union that grants all the legal benefits without all the religious connotations? Why are they attacking Christianity so relentlessly? Do you really believe for one second that the above situation would happen to say, a Muslim Imam?

Incidentally, as a descendant of the Ponca Sioux, let me say this:

Why does the Liberal adoration for Darwin's Survival of the Fittest suddenly evaporate when it comes to human history?

The Indians (my own ancestors) were backwards people who did not demonstrate any understanding of assimilation. It works both ways. Want an example?

An ancient civilization that came into contact with other cultures and grew stronger for the experience by adopting their technology and applicable pieces of their culture, the Japanese.

Even though my paternal grandfather fought them in the Second World War, I have a high appreciation for them and a fascination with their society. They did terrible things like everyone else, but I can move on and do my best to give credit where it is due.

Now, please feel free to offer your rhetorical rebuttal...

The pedophilia scandal PROVED that most Catholics are brainwashed.

if your kids went to a babysitter, and you found out the babysitter's husband was a child molester, and that the babysitter not only knew this, but had allowed her husband to be around kids KNOWING he was a child molester, would you then continue to have contact with that babysitter?

Of course not, but when the CHURCH does it, you just keep going back and handing them your money.

There is no further proof needed that Catholics are brainwashed.

You guys support people who knowingly let child molesters work with kids. You are evil, and you do not love your c hildren. You are slaves.

CATHOLICS GIVE MONEY TO AN INSTITUTION THAT ALLOWED PEDOPHILIA.

CATHOLICS SUPPORT PEDOPHILIA

CATHOLICS ARE CHILD RAPISTS

CATHOLICS ARE EVIL

CATHOLICS ARE CHILD RAPISTS

CATHOLICS KNOWINGLY ALLOW THEIR CHILDREN TO BE TENDED TO BY MEN WHO ALLOWED CHILD MOLESTERS TO WORK WITH CHILDREN

CATHOLICS HATE CHILDREN

CATHOLICS ARE EVIL

CATHOLICS CONDONE THE RAPE OF CHILDREN

CATHOLICS MONETARILY SUPPORT THE RAPE OF CHILDREN

CATHOLICS DO NOT EVEN DEMAND THE RESIGNATION OF LEADERS WHO ALLOWED CHILDREN TO BE RAPED

CATHOLICS ARE EVIL

CATHOLICS RAPE CHILDREN

SPIN IT ALL YOU WANT, EVERYONE INT EHE WORLD KNOWS THE TRUTH ABOUT YOU NOW

YOU ARE NOTHING BUT CHILD RAPISTS

Catholics are responsible for the rape of more children, the murder of more women, and the torture of more innocents than any other institution ever devised by man. From its origin through this very day, the Catholic 'Church' has supressed knowledge and fought scientific progress. They openly and actively supported slavery. They supported racism, fascism, and sexism. They were allies of Hitler and Mussalini. They published the Witches Hammer, a 'how to' guide to torture and murder innocent women. They burned scientists at the stake in a futile attempt to keep the masses from learning the Bible is incorrect. They tortured and murdered multitudes in the Inquisition and and Crusades - all in the name of a loving God. Is the Catholic Church evil? Yes. It is the most evil institution ever devised by man. The Pope's apology for the vast amount of "sins committed by the church" in 2000 is not enough.

I do not understand how a “strong faith in God” equates to support of the Catholic Church, or any church that commits such heinous atrocities. God is God. He is not any one denomination or man-made institution. I have to say I know my Bible pretty well, but tell me where it says that God is the Catholic Church? Where is this “once a Catholic, always a Catholic” thing written? The God I believe in doesn’t require me to belong to any particular church group.
Would a God-fearing Christian continue to hold fast to any other organization that conducted illegal activity? If one belonged to a civic organization that decided to engage in criminal activity to increase its budget, would one think twice about leaving that organization? If a group a God-fearing Christian belonged to had several members committing sexual abuse, would that group still be supported?

YOUR TITHES SUPPORT CHILD RAPISTS

“Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions.”
- Frater Ravus

From: http://beta.morons.org/tally-ho/article/read/3849;jsessionid=aP9MkCvrSIb8GBWjMo

Pope John Paul II has publicly announced the Catholic Church's efforts to ensure the European Union "makes a clear reference to Europe's Christian heritage" in the proposed new EU Constitution.

At the same time, the Pope, the titular Leader of the Catholic Church, has publicly denounced Canadian and European efforts to legalize same-gender marriage, stating through a spokesman (spokespriest?), "We want to protect the sanctity of marriage, the union of family. The Catholic Church is fighting back against those who want to legalize gay marriage. The Pope says he wants marriage to forever be between a man and a woman."

On the face of it, these positions seem to fall directly in line with traditional Catholic teachings.

And that is what scares the hell out of me.

Since this site is not "journalism," I am permitted to color my "reporting" with my own opinion, so, here they come:

I fail to understand how the Pope or any emmisary from the Catholic Church can stand up and speak on these subjects with anything resembling a straight (no pun intended) face, and furthermore, am flabbergasted that members of this Church continue to have any faith in their "leaders."

Yo, Mr. Pope, sir? Would you mind much following your own spirtual tenets and taking the frigging plank out of your eye? Then you might actually see better that this isn't a speck in ours.

This is the same organization that actually actively thwarted investigations into the criminal activities of pedophile priests.

Let's face it: The documents revealed in the investigation of the behavior of the Church in regards to pedophile priests reveal this organization to be nothing more than a criminal gang. As if the world needed any further proof; The Inquisition, The Crusades, the fostering of Nazism and protection of Nazis during the second world war...all of these examples should be evidence enough.

Although it will never happen, what should happen is this: the Federal Prosecutor in Massachusetts should file RICO charges against the Catholic Church for fostering and hiding this criminal behavior in a systematic manner, crossing not only state lines but borders and continents.

I have always been leery of organized religion. Now I am flat out convinced the Catholic Church is an evil, criminal organization that must be disbanded.

- JT

The whole point is proposed law is to allow moles in Catholic Churches to break parishes away from the Church leadership - divide and conquer. Make no mistake their is a war between organized religion and secularists and an attempt to remove traditional Christianity from public view and eventually exterminate it.

As for keeping religion inside the churches and seperating religion from politics, one must be woefully ignorant of Americas history and the role Christianity played in its first 200 years. The part about church and state was to prevent THE STATE from infering in religious affairs and peoples own religious beliefs, not the other way around.

The way the liberals and even many libertarians (many of whom are atheists or some kind of vague deists) want it, is that first religion, specifically Christianity, is be kept 100% inside churches and private homes and people should not be allowed to express religious views or allow such view to be part of their decision making process (of it they do keep it to themselves). Eventually leading to a nearly 100% secular society where religion is viewed in the same manner as a Harry Potter novel - and children are not allowed to be taught religion in any way other than a superstition and historical curiousity. The first target of course is Christianity simply because its so huge in the US. Then they figure they can go after the other smaller groups - Muslim, Jews, ect. US society would come to resemble a secularized version of Iran. With only small cluster of older people practicing their religion in darkened rooms and risking fines or imprisonment if they teach children about their religion.

For another generation you will be able to practice Christianity without attack as long as you dont really believe in it or its values. A good example are the Catholic politicans who have no problems with abortion.

New Age Christianity is also acceptable in the new order - a good example of this is book called "The Shack" where God the Father is Black African Woman, Jesus is a Palestinian carpenter and the Holy Spirit is an Asian woman - very politically correct. And God is love and requires nothing of us - and God now says sin is its own punishment. One need no longer ask Jesus for forgiveness, its only necessary that you love God.

Yes indeed, the America of the first 200 years is probably gone forever. Welcome to the Age of Aquarius.

BLAM,BLAM,BLAM damn there sure are alot of moonbats out today. Looks like I'm going to need the full auto for this flock.

Oh I feel so sorry for those poor Catholics. With less power, think how much harder it will be for them to conspire to facilitate child rape!!

Boo hoo hoo

You all are just mad because you know you love a child raping institution. Because you are brainwashed. NO ONE who is not brainwashed would continue to be a member of an organization which commits massive conspiracy to commit child rape.

OBSCENE COMMENT DELETED

OOOPPPPPPSSSS trolls I'm not Catholic and don't have a son. But since you enjoy using such a big brush you better hope you don't get any on you.
Let's see libacrits love criminals,rapists and pedophiles. HOLY SHIT!!!!!! libacrits are Catholics. Boy using this big brush sure is fun.

Note to self: Stay away from moonbat libacrits all they think about is having sex with children, sick mothers should be taken out and shot.

Festivus, I never said I approved of child rape, or that I was a Catholic. In fact, I'm Protestant, and not fond of the Catholic church for some of its past actions. However, it is ridiculous, bigoted, and unfair for you to claim that all Catholics are either pedophiles or openly support pedophiles.
Most ordinary Catholics were unaware of the abuses that some priests were involved in. Plus, as I recall, the Vatican had a few years ago made a council on what to do about child molestors, and among the punishments they decided on included removing their ordination and reporting them to the police.
btw, the Catholic church wasn't an ally of Hitler, it just declared a platform of non- involvement (The equivalent of Pilate washing his hands of what happened to Jesus). Besides, many priests openly spoke out agaisnt the Holocaust and were imprisoned or executed for it, such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
Plus, you obsess so much over the sexual abuses in the Catholic church, yet ignore the FAR more numerous child molestations committed in public schools by teachers and staff.

The so-called pedophilia of Catholic priests rarely, if ever, involved female children. It always involved male children and rightly cannot be called pedophilia at all. These atrocious acts were not a result of the sickness of pedophilia, but were perpetrated by the wickedness of homosexuality.

In recent times the priesthood has become an outlet for homosexual men who were not secure enough or strong enough to find an outlet in the secular world. When the Church rids itself of leftist/liberal/progressive infiltration, the abominable problem of child rape by homosexual priests will be solved.

I don't hate people for being Christian. I pity them. They're religious for a reason.

Lack of religion is the luxury of a good life, and not everyone has that luxury. If you look around the world, the most peaceful and affluent countries are the least religious. The more poor and horrible a country is, the more religious they are. Same in the US. The more affluent and educated the state, the less religious. Same on a state level. Those in the economically depressed rural areas are more religious than those in more affluent ubran and suburban centers. Also crime rate is directly proportional to religion. The more crime ridden an area, the more religious people will be to comfort themselves. Thus the deep south has the highest violent crime and poverty rate of any region of the US, and is the most religious. New England has the lowest violent crime and poverty rate, and is the least religious.

The worse your life is, the more likely you are to be religious. It takes an extremely strong person to be atheist in the midst of a difficult life. I've known a few, but not many. Not many people can be that strong.

My life is great. I live in Manhattan and have a good job, my husband has a great career in the US Army. We do well financially, have a great marriage, great family, and great friends. I'm fine with this being all there is. Even when my husband went to Iraq with the 82nd airborne it didn't make him any more religious. As horrible as war can be, he's led a rich fulfilling life. We don't need the comfort of God to get us through the day.

But most people in the world aren't that luck. Life is hard, oppressive, and short. How on EARTH could you face the day without believing that there's something else afterwards if you were stuck in some impoverished Appalachian town or a Detroit slum? These people can hardly be blamed for needed something to cling to. I don't think ANYONE is stupid for being religious. It's a survival technique. Plain and simple.

The founder of Islam was married to a 9 year old but only the anti-christian fanantics focus on the Catholic Church to attack it for condoning pedophilia. The priest scandal reality is that only about 300 priests out of 25,000 plus were accused over a 30 year period. The warnings that this would occur were ignored in the sixties by a liberal acceptance of homosexuals into the priesthood (most of the victims were over the age of 13). The cover-up is indefensible and those involved are gone or dead and the Church has paid out millions in damages and instituted one of the most strict training for clergy, teachers or volunteers plus criminal background checks to protect kids. These standards are much tougher that is required of public school teachers or any other groups who work with kids, where many more attacks have occured. But the attacks on the Church continue because of the priest scandel is just a straw dog, it is positions on abortion and homosexuality and no women as priests are behind these attacks. If they changed their positions today these same haters whould be singing the Church's praises and telling the victims of pedophilia to just get over it. We just have to look at liberal utophias of our schools and major cities to see how well there idiology is doing and the damage it causes.

Gerty,
How in the hell can you bend over and kiss your own ass??? Must be something you learned in the circus.

The trolls are really biting today. Some atheist site must have tracked back here.

First, this bill was a clear violation of the first amendment. The government has NO business telling religions how they must organize their governing bodies. Separation of church and state, remember?

Second, the homosexual molestation that occurred in the Church, while an abomination, was far from universal. By most estimates, only about 1% of priests are believed to have engaged in such activity over the past 50 years. That's a LOT smaller percentage of offenders than what you tend to find in secular populations.

If you are going to hold all Catholics responsible for it, than I think it's fair to hold all homosexuals responsible for homosexual abuse of minors, including any abuse committed by homosexual priests.

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

Gerty:

You state that the more economically depressed and/or crime ridden an area is the more religious it is. You cite this evidence that religion is a "bad thing", or at the very least a detriment to the individual and society.

However, your analysis of the statistical study fails to take into account other aspects common to low-income, high crime areas: primarily among them being stronger family ties. The more low-income, high crime areas statistically also have more instances of large and extended families living in close proximity to one another.

The counter-argument could be made that this is due to economic reasons. This would be half-correct. It is true that an individual is likely not able to afford to move to a better neighborhood. However, it is equally likely that he/she could afford to move to another low-income, high crime one, or a slightly better low-income, high crime one. If others are dependent on their income, they could as easily mail them a check as hand them one. However, they stay put. Why? If you actually take the time to ask them, you would find a consistent, recurrent, practically (percentage-wise) unanimous reason : "We ain't got much, but we got each other."

I would cite the very same evidence in support of religion as a good and beneficial thing to the individual and society. When "hard times" hit, when tragedy occurs, or when faced with hopeless situations - poverty, lack of opportunity, etc. - it is common, even natural, for people to cling tighter to "the essentials" - their family, and should they have it, their faith. I do not think you are foolish enough to argue that family is a bad thing or detrimental to society, as it is the exact opposite.

I don't know what it takes to be an atheist, though judging from the books of Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Victor Stenger, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens, it would seem to require a profound lack of curiosity about religion and religious people, and a generous amount of self-flattery. While Dawkins and Stenger are accomplished scientists, Dennett a philosopher and Harris owner of a philosophy degree, and Hitchens a respected journalist, their respective attempts at theological (theology = thought applied to religion) discussion range from the merely laughable to pathetic. One of the primary common threads woven through all their publications in regards to religion is an almost complete ignorance of Christian theology and a thoroughly superficial biblical exegesis. The other common thread is to repeatedly congratulate themselves on their intelligence and bravery in being a non-believer, and their "insight" into "proving the folly" of religion, a subject with which they show little evidence of being familiar.

Your comment is of the same cloth. Your blanket assertion, that people are religious because they are not strong enough (as you flatter yourself to be) to face difficulty on their own, displays a remarkable ignorance of religious people and religious belief, and serves as little more than an exercise in self-congratulation. Should you actually seriously investigate the matter, you would find almost as many reasons for religious belief as you would religious believers.

As for myself, I am religious because I am educated. My religious faith would not be possible without my philosophical and theological studies. A ruthless questioner, I have sought answers to questions in numerous libraries and internet publications, and when further questions arose, I simply wrote (or called) the author of the publication in question. My contacts have included nearly as many "skeptics" as "believers", and the "believers" included Catholic (orthodox and dissenters), Protestant, Jew, and Muslim, and ranged over 4 continents. Even the most distinguished of scholars will politely answer your questions if you are persistent and polite enough.

My belief would not be possible without my questioning; my questioning has lead me to the belief that Christianity is true and that the Church is exactly what it claims it is. It is also quite likely that the reasons you would offer for your disbelief are the same reasons that I would offer for my belief. Whatever the case, I certainly am not in need of your pity.

Cordially,

GR

And this is why they say never discuss religion or politics at a dinner party.

BTW, that was quite a bouncy mid-thread.

If we're pissing the trolls off, we're doing our jobs... Good work, VH!

I did not marry a Catholic.
When I told her about the vicious anti-catholicism I have actually experienced, she found it hard to believe, thought maybe I was exaggerating.
I showed her this page.
Now she believes me.

Posted by: Jim at March 11, 2009 2:01 PM

Hey, Jim. Don't despair.

Everyone hates a winner.

:)

Hey, ANONYMOUS hippie-indian!
While you're feeling sorry for your "tribe", here's a little song for you to sing in solidarity with another oppressed minority. Only THIS minority didn't cry and begged for government hand-outs, but instead over-came their troubles and became a force to be recconded with! Read the words and think hard about their meaning, IF YOU DARE!

Wearin Of The Green

O Paddy dear, and did ye hear the news that's goin' round?
The shamrock is by law forbid to grow on Irish ground!
No more Saint Patrick's Day we'll keep, his color can't be seen
For there's a cruel law ag'in the Wearin' o' the Green."
I met with Napper Tandy, and he took me by the hand
And he said, "How's poor old Ireland, and how does she stand?"
"She's the most distressful country that ever yet was seen
For they're hanging men and women there for the Wearin' o' the Green."

"So if the color we must wear be England's cruel red
Let it remind us of the blood that Irishmen have shed
And pull the shamrock from your hat, and throw it on the sod
But never fear, 'twill take root there, though underfoot 'tis trod.

When laws can stop the blades of grass from growin' as they grow
And when the leaves in summer-time their color dare not show
Then I will change the color too I wear in my caubeen
But till that day, please God, I'll stick to the Wearin' o' the Green.

I did some research. The two legislators... Lawlor and McDonald... behind this bill are both gay. The bill is payback for the Catholic Church opposing gay marriage.

That also explains, I think, why this post has attracted a moonbat infestation.

Lets also not forget that the pedophile Priests in the Catholic church that the Liberals and Gays like to point out here were HOMOSEXUAL pedophile priests, something that Liberals and Gays like to ignore by just calling them pedophiles. Not that molesting girls would be any better, but it was always boys...so one must ask the question: Why did HOMOSEXUALS become Priests in the first place in a church whose doctrine is so "hostile" towards their depravity? is it because they could have easy access to boys?