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The temperature data the warming people rely on - is it taken mostly on land, or do we have data from stations all over the oceans too. Just wondering, because changes in ocean currents can probably affect temperatures over huge areas of land without there being any net temperature change globally.

I'm just hoping like hell that people start realizing how stupid they're all being. Global Warming and Climate change pretends to be based in Science, data, and fact, and the only data/fact that supports it is that it was getting warmer over a period of time.

ALL OTHER data and science points toward this occurrence as the natural change of the planet, and we have nothing to do with it.

Good question forest...and a lot of the temp data I've seen has been skewed by doing measurements in cities (lots of steel and concrete) and not adjusting for that fact or averaging out the data with an equal number of rural and sea temps.

There are two main forces at work: political (using this as a club to get a socialist agenda in place) and monetary (this can make a LOT of dough for those involved). There is a third group, also. The True Believers. Their agenda is ultimately the elimination of humans from Gaia. As PETA's Ingrid Newkirk says "Humans have grown like a cancer. We're the biggest blight on the face of the earth.”

For them, I'm willing to re-open Manzanar.

Don't get me started on lightbulbs again.

Anyway, this noon on CNN's Planet in Peril, they talked about the discovery of about 100 new species of animal. So much for the decimation of earth.

forest, I was in the Navy and also the Merchant Marine. US flagged ships have been gathering and sending weather data to NOAA for decades - that's where they get the ocean data.

Climate Change 'science' is a not true to the scientific method because it is loaded with political baggage and everyone knows it. It avoids answering for its politics. Questions that are avoided or aren't properly answered never go away. The mere word 'Science' is seen as sacred, and for some reason people have come to equate a PhD with divinity. Anything they say must be true because they're the scientists.

This is the biggest trojan horse for socialism the left has yet to dream up. Environmentalism is their religion. They worship nature, and where there is nature worship there is bound to be human suffering. The goal is to make people suffer for the sake of the environment and to march us closer to a socialist utopia. The proponents of AGW fit the definition of 'one hand clapping'. The other hand (dissent/skepticism) isn't allowed because 'the science is settled'. That's not science.

Thankfully it's unraveling before their eyes, but it's still going to be a while before they accept it. Facts are stubborn things and sooner or later they'll have to accept that their magic trick has been revealed. I bet they're in a mad rush to dream up a way to take credit for saving the world. There must be a way to make the science show that global temps miraculously dropped on Nov. 4, 2008, don't you think?

I am a regular on here, but I'll post this as anon.

Consider the following: The same group of people (agenda-funded scientists) who tell us global warming is real, also tell us evolution is not to be questioned. At all.

If you believe evolution is real, it is most likely because it's what you've been told, and not what you've actually researched. If you are willing, there are some great books that show the evolution movement to be as farcical as the global warming movement.

For the non-technical: Tornado in a Junkyard

For a read that can be read by both technical, as well as non-technical: Darwin's Black Box

For the mathematically inclined (although it's not too deep if you're technical or statistically educated): Not by Chance

Actually Archimedes would say the level would stay the same, neither rise not drop.

The ice is floating, so it is displacing its own weight. The "glass of water" experiment should verify that.

Fill a glass with ice. Fill the glass with water to the top of the glass. It is OK if the ice extends above the glass edge.

I have a question that is perplexing to me. How on earth can they make the claim...

Global surface temperature increased 0.74 ± 0.18 °C (1.33 ± 0.32 °F) during the 100 years ending in 2005. (source)

...when temperatures were not extensively recorded 100 years ago, and the data could not possibly be accurate enough to determine a rise as little as 0.74°C. Normal thermocouples used at weather stations have an accuracy of only ±1°C. With this level of sloppiness, coupled with data recorded over the years at airports, etc, using uncalibrated thermocouples, how can they make such a claim?

Unless, of course, it is dogma rather than science.

It is true that melting floating ice does not have an effect. But most of the world's ice is on land--it is miles deep in Greenland and Antartica has nine times as much. If it melts, it would really raise ocean levels. However, it is not melting. It seems to be growing. The contribution of floating ice is so insignificant that only Al Gore and his lying acolytes would be silly enough to mention it with respect to ocean levels.

For a scientist to publically agree with Al Gore and say he accepts Al Gore's reasoning is for that scientist to publically state: "I am now and forever renouncing my scientific career and the respect of my colleagues. I will do anything, say anything, sign anything for money or research grants. No critically thinking man of science should ever again believe anything I write or say. I realize that I am dishonoring my mentors and professors and that any present and past student of mine has good and sufficent reason to be ashamed of me."

Only LIBERAL scientists who agree with Al Gore are smart. All the other ones are dumb scientists being paid off by big oil and big coal and George Bush and Dick Cheney.

Did everyone see me in "The Day The Earth Got Bored"?

Now buy some carbon credits and STFU!

It won't matter in five or six years after Barry signs the 'Save the Planet Act' from Nazi Pelosi and company this Spring. The effect on the American economy will be devastating.

In ten years when they finally agree that they stopped Global Warming and that's why we're headed into a new Ice Age, they'll need even more taxes and power to stop that.

While you all freeze to death. While I sit on my poarch in the Tropics knocking down the Pina Coladas in a balmy 80 degrees. Enjoy.

Scientists also recently discovered that Dinosaurs honked like old Buicks...

.....Deming is a tenured University of Oklahoma geology professor who has sued in order to regain his place in his department. The lawsuit stems from a December 2003 decision to remove Deming from the School of Geology and Geophysics, where he was an associate professor. In his new position, he could continue to do research, but had to gain permission to teach classes—and the classes he taught would not be listed as geology classes, but as geoscience classes. This change has significantly reduced enrollment in his classes. “I’m a geologist and geophysicist,” he says. “I don’t do geoscience.”....

Hes also a "true believer" in moonbatterynessness

http://www.campusreportonline.net/main/articles.php?id=257

So who can ever trust anything from the leftists AP they are complete liars and fabricate the news thats why we can realy put a end to the lies by boycotting the vil AP and their lying presses of socialism

"This is the biggest trojan horse for socialism the left has yet to dream up."

Posted by: lvb-rocks at December 17, 2008 11:23 AM

Proof of this are the nasty comments I'm getting on an AL GORE joke I put up on my blog this morning. I have two card carrying socialist-moonbat trolls pinging me and commenting. meatbrain aka Terry Bisson pinging me and one of his buddies on the socialist Bushwell blog (who fancy themselves as being scientists, though Bushwell herself is a lab person in a chemical company and non of the rest know how to make scientific debate, only spewing insults about conservatives. Go figure. Our country is in trouble because of people like this and the AP and news media in general pushing agendas that they claim "will save the world". Taxing farm animals because they pass gas??? That's saving the world???

Thanks Kevin, you are awesome.

My pleasure, HoosierArmyMom.

But most of the world's ice is on land--it is miles deep in Greenland and Antartica has nine times as much.

The Greenland ice sheet has experienced some melting at the edges in some places but the overall mass is actually increasing.
Antarctica is not a solid land mass. 2/3 of the "land" ice of Antarctica is below sea level.

I see a bunch of funny names, a bunch of ad hominem attacks, and quite a bit of misdirection perpetrated by stay-at-home moms and evangelical nut-jobs with a sixth grade education and oppositional defiance disorder furthering their own paranoia about some imagined left wing conspriacy.....but not a lick of science in this commentary on the story. Bunch-o-'tards...

Dave you should have taken that left at kostown.

Short stack.

You are right about the land below sea level. Some of it has actually been pressed down by the weight of the ice. I did a cut and paste of a site that shows this. The quote is lifted directly from the site. The site does contain a map. (I haven't a clue why they think 2000 feet = 6,562 meters. It seems likely they mean 2000 meters or about 6,562 feet--another reason I pasted the whole text.)

"Located at the South Pole, Antarctica covers 5.5 million square miles (14.2 square kilometers) and with over 95% of its surface area covered by ice it generates the coldest climate on Earth.

Based on its topography, the continent is divided into two parts: East Antarctica (south of Australia) and West Antarctica (south of South America). The dividing line runs approximately along the 0-180 degree meridian, from the east side of the Ronne-Filchner Ice Shelf to the west side of the Ross Ice Shelf.

East Antarctica is dominated by a large dome made of ice and snow. The dome rises to over 14,000 feet (4,267 meters). A ridge extends from the center of the dome in East Antarctica across the South Pole and into West Antarctica. The ridge diverts ice flows to either side of it with part of the ice going onto the Ross Ice Shelf the rest going onto Ronne-Filchner ice shelf.

The weight of all of this ice and snow has submerged part of the actual Antarctic landmass below the oceans. If the all of the ice were removed, the land would rise approximately 2,000 feet (6,562 meters) until most of East Antarctica was above sea level. Most of West Antarctica, however, would still remain submerged forming a shallow sea."

http://lrs.ed.uiuc.edu/students/downey/project/topography.html

The pseudo scientist guys leave out ocean current and temperature ocillations and then get all excited about edge melt. It is the mass of ice that matters, and that is increaseing.

"For a read that can be read by both technical, as well as non-technical: Darwin's Black Box"

I like it how creationists call Dawkins a hack because he has written a few popular science books.

http://web.archive.org/web/20071011023211/http://www.home.duq.edu/~lampe/BeheCV2.html

Maybe if your types applied the same level of skepticism that you applied to AGW to intelligent design you might have a little more credibility.

I have two card carrying socialist-moonbat trolls pinging me and commenting.

Posted by: HoosierArmyMom at December 17, 2008 2:16 PM

Hey HAM - I bet at least one is Dino/Parker. It calls itself "HLF" at Annie's Inferno. It followed me over there from here. It's only goal is to insult people and be stupid. Classic liberal. If someone says "the sun is shining" he/it/she counters with something like "no thanks to conservative brainstem scum bags who want to destroy the earth". What a dipshit.

I see a bunch of funny names, a bunch of ad hominem attacks, and quite a bit of misdirection perpetrated by stay-at-home moms and evangelical nut-jobs with a sixth grade education and oppositional defiance disorder furthering their own paranoia about some imagined left wing conspriacy.....but not a lick of science in this commentary on the story. Bunch-o-'tards...

Posted by: Dave N at December 17, 2008 5:07 PM

Retired nuclear scientist and chemistry professor from the University of Idaho Michael R. Fox ... geology professor David Deming of the University of Oklahoma ... Florida State University, emeritus professor James O'Brien ...

Look up "OISM project" as well, if you'd like.

Perhaps it is you whose argument is un-scientific?

Who was it again that supports AGW besides the UN, whose own scientists left the organization over their support for it?

We've been promised "Waterworld" for years and the sea levels haven't rised a bit.

I would like Al Gore to kill himself if the North Pole is not completely melted in five years as he claims. If his overweight ass lives that long, that is.

Some day people will realize that these "sky is falling" chicken little politicians were just trying to force a socialist agenda on us.

Well, maybe they will. As I grow older I am increasingly frustrated by the stupidity of the average person. Common sense is no longer common.

Science has never been less objective than it is today. Science as it is practiced today, appeals to the leftist mind-set because satisfies their need to feel intellectually superior to the lesser, idiotic little people. Today's scientists live and work in a well-insulated bubble of like-minded academic elitists.

Climate science leads the field in biased, politically driven theories posing as objective science. I associate daily with people at the highest levels of climate science and it amazes me how unaware many are of the leftist political agenda they're advancing. They are the true believers who can't see through the bubble they are living in. Most are just too 'nerdy' to realize that they are being fooled. The smarter ones know full-well what they're pushing and these people are dangerous.

Like most liberal doctrines, climate science can't stand on the falsehoods that would otherwise discredit it, so scientists default to scare tactics predicated on their own self-imposed, sanctimonious intellectual superiority.

Leftist policies can't appeal to the masses on their own merits so they must be imposed. This is what climate science is all about. It's the fragmented philosophy of the left: if things can't rise naturally from below, the must be imposed from above.

Climate change skeptics or dissenters are dismissed as heretics, or they are made to submit to a scientific dogma that is younger than the scientists themselves. They've invented an 'Inquisition' of their own, with excommunication for heretics, penance for sinners, and the threat of hell (hot, hot globe) for lack of submission. The new term in modern times should be 'The Imposition'.

The rush is on for climate science to get the credit for the dropping temps. Computer models are being engineered as we speak to link Jan. 20, 2009 to the saving of the world from global warming.

GLOBAL WARMING NEWSPEAK

Contrary to popular belief, George Orwell lives.

Okay, technically the author of 1984 passed to the great beyond in 1950 but Orwellian thought lives and thrives in the persons of Al Gore and his fellow global warmists who employ Orwell’s “Newspeak” whenever necessary, i.e., whenever reality gets in the way of their propaganda.

As the Northeast shivers, as Montana sets a new record low temperature, (-31 degrees), as snow hit semi-tropical New Orleans, never is heard a discouraged word from the Gorewarmists. They attribute the freeze not to the oncoming winter solstice when things tend to get cold in the Northern Hemisphere but to, what else, global warming: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081214/D952LKP00.html.

Classic Newspeak or Doublespeak, take your pick, or language and interpretation distorted to serve ideological goals rather than the accepted purpose of language, to communicate.

You can almost feel Gore’s sweat in the increasingly-panicked tone of the rhetoric being spewed from the warmists’ new acolyte, President-elect Barack Obama, “The time for delay is over; the time for denial is over . . .We all believe what the scientists have been telling us for years now that this is a matter of urgency and national security and it has to be dealt with in a serious way.”

He is supported by one scientist who warns of a natural Armageddon, “We are out of time . . . Things are going extinct.” Meanwhile, from Reality Land, this report on thousands of new species of flora and fauna, from plants to mammals, to insects, to frogs, to fish, being discovered in Asia: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/3761269/Spider-as-big-as-a-plate-among-scores-of-new-species-found-in-Greater-Mekong.html

Mr. Obama, quite the opposite of what the global warmists preach is true, which renders their words and your words as prime examples of Newspeak. We all don’t believe in the poppycock propaganda and all the scientists have not been telling us that for years now, indeed far from all.

See “Global Warming Fraud,” December 10th, which exposes the truth that 650 international scientists strongly disagree, as opposed to 52 United Nations’ scientist-lackeys who promote the idea. That article goes on to expose the cockamamie plans of the U.N. mad scientists who would tamper with nature, with the Earth, and with the sun’s rays and expose Earthlings to untold disasters all to serve their misguided theories.

We’re in the midst of what some people say is the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression eighty years ago, but who cares. The warmists are heartened by election of the Obamassiah who will take office in five weeks. He will damn the torpedoes from the 650 rational scientists and move full speed ahead to cripple our gasping economy even further by implementing the demands of the United Nations’ zealots.

Their panic is real, not because of the temperature, but because of fear that more and more people will listen to the truth that Mother Earth is merely going through a normal, cyclical change.

The MyWay.com article concludes with, “Ironically, 2008 is on pace to be a slightly cooler year . . . Experts say it’s thanks to a La Nina weather variation. While skeptics are already using it as evidence of some kind of cooling trend, it actually illustrates how fast the world is warming.”

That makes sense. In Newspeak.

(http://genelalor.com/)

It's only goal is to insult people and be stupid.

The insults are pretty lame, but he completely nails the stupid part.

You all are such a treasure. You stimulate thought and common sense. That's why I started reading conservative commentary and "flipped over".

Jimbo, according to my stats, the hairbrains on Joan Bushwell's socialist cesspool blog opened a special thread, and of course meatbrain has been on the attack ever since "His Man" Obama won the election. They are likened to a bunch of elitist monkeys who have never emotionally grown up beyond kindergarten. I have long suspected many of the obnoxious, foul mouthed, anti-christian trolls on here came from their ilk.

lvb-rocks... your comment is stellar!

Jimbo: I love your photo on Annie's Inferno!!!!

The irrational emotion that the global warming debate elicits from the left (Dave N et al), only reveals the weakness in their arguments which, of course, is caused by the weakness in the science.

HoosierArmyMom, I think we would get along great, but I'm rethinking the 'biggest trojan horse' comment now. There is an equally big trojan horse that they have created. It's the financial crisis. Manufacturing crises like climate change and the financial meltdown is the best way to deliver more of their agenda.

When thoughtless people believe in a crisis, they turn to something bigger or 'smarter' than themselves to solve it, (in these cases it's science and the government which now go hand-in-hand). So we elect those who can solve the problems that have been deliberately designed, and those in power get to deliver a great big, healthy dose of 'Imposition'. Pretty clever. It's coming at us from two sides now, and I'm waiting for the third.

The left has mastered the art of attacking false devils and abstractions (CO2 emissions, paper-based finances...), and they fight like mad against enemies that can't fight back. Put a real enemy in front of them, like terrorism, and they think themselves dizzy to come up with a way to avoid the fight. They don't recognize real evil so they create false devils and then go to 'war'. They give the real thing a light slap with a wet glove (usually by excusing and flipping the blame) and hope it goes away. Leftism really is psychological disorder.

The title of Al Gore's award winning work is (unintentionally) instructive. To the Left the truth is inconvenient. Merely inconvenient.

I wouldnt spend a single penny on AL GORES big ego trip into green silly land