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November 27, 2008

Obama's Pro-Abortion Fanaticism Could Close One Third of Hospitals

Despite its sneering contempt for those who respect the sanctity of human life, even Slate is a little concerned that Obama's pro-abortion fanaticism could lead to the closure of one third of American hospitals:

If the Freedom of Choice Act passes Congress … Obama has promised to sign it the second it hits his desk. (Here he is at a Planned Parenthood Action Fund event in 2007, vowing, "The first thing I'd do as president is, is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing I'd do.") Though it's often referred to as a mere codification of Roe, FOCA, as currently drafted, actually goes well beyond that: According to the Senate sponsor of the bill, Barbara Boxer, in a statement on her Web site, FOCA would nullify all existing laws and regulations that limit abortion in any way, up to the time of fetal viability. Laws requiring parental notification and informed consent would be tossed out. While there is strenuous debate among legal experts on the matter, many believe the act would invalidate the freedom-of-conscience laws on the books in 46 states. These are the laws that allow Catholic hospitals and health providers that receive public funds through Medicaid and Medicare to opt out of performing abortions. Without public funds, these health centers couldn't stay open; if forced to do abortions, they would sooner close their doors. Even the prospect of selling the institutions to other providers wouldn't be an option, the bishops have said, because that would constitute "material cooperation with an intrinsic evil."

You can't blame Obama for itching to sign the bizarrely misnamed Freedom of Choice Act; for radical leftists, it creates a win-win situation.

Controlling access to healthcare is key to controlling the population — thus the Democrats' avid interest in socializing medicine. Christianity is hated by liberals because it provides a moral basis for resistance. Driving Christians out of healthcare would obviously advance the liberal agenda. If the closures cause a crisis, so much the better. As the economy has been proving so graphically lately, every crisis is an opportunity for statists to push us closer to socialism.

It might be better still for liberals if Catholic hospitals don't close, but dutifully obey government orders to extinguish innocent human life, like guards shoving Jews toward the ovens at Auschwitz. This would help reduce Catholicism to a hollow, hypocritical shell — the meaningless pseudo-religion practiced by reprobates like Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden. Once Christianity loses the will to defend good from evil, it will cease to serve as a bulwark against the moral insanity of the Left.

Hat tip: The Corner. On a tip from Moonbat Smasher.

Posted by Van Helsing at November 27, 2008 11:02 AM


If you think about it, this could actu ally be a benefit.

Since the moonbats are the ones who seem to support infanticide, they'll no doubt be the ones getting the most abortions.

This in turn means less children being born to and brought up by moonbats.

This in turn means fewer moonbats for us all.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 27, 2008 11:18 AM

So, it's a horrible violation of freedom for there to be an Amendment to the Constitution defining marriage for all fifty states, but it's perfectly fabulous for the Federal government to over-ride all state and local abortion laws.

Yeah, I get it.

Posted by: V the K at November 27, 2008 11:47 AM

I think that the most revealing thing about ths website, aside from the fact that it's members wish death upon anyone who disagrees with them in posts, is that whenever there is a voice of reason "Well, I voted for McCain, but I don't HATE liberals" "I come onto this site occasionally, and I vote Republican, but I find you guys disturbing" is that whenever someone writes something like this, the response is "oh, you must be a troll. Because anyone who votes Republican MUST be as filled with hate as I am."

It is just amazing how out of touch with reality you guys are. That you are so sheltered, have such a limited social life, that you honestly think all conservatives think like you. All conservatives blame every problem in their lives and society on liberals. Every Republican wants liberals to die. Every Republican thinks Obama is the anti Christ. There is no such thing as a Republican who is friends with liberals, and doesn't take politics personally and hate them.

The fact of the matter is that Rathmussen and Gallup and AP polls have shown that only 13% of america is far right, and only 9% is far left. Only 13% of americans poll saying that they don't agree with ANY liberal policies, and don't want to seek ANY compromise. These same polls showed that only 25% of Americans are against environmental regulations. Less than 20% think that abortion should be illegal in ALL cases, even rape and when the mother is endangered.

But you guys just so completely loathe anyone who thinks the least bit differently, that you think that you represent the majority viewpoint, and when you hear the view from someone who is ACTUALLY right center, and not just psychotic like you, you just can't believe it, and say they are a fake and aliar.

Again, it is just absolutely shocking how out of touch with the reality of American politics that you just say that anyone who is right center who disagrees with you at all either deserves to die, is a traitor, or is only pretending to be a centrist and really MUST be a liberal.

Most people don't hate the other side. Just you. Only a collective total of 22% of Americans believe that the right or left is evil and have no good values.

It's like when I saw a Louis Thoreaux documentary on white supremacists. They were interviewing them, and they h onestly believe that EVERY OTHER white person hates minorities JUST as much as they do, and actually want a whites only society, they just won't admit it. Any white person who acts like the don't hate minorities is lying. They are the only ones that are being honest in all of America.

That's you. You are as disillusioned as white supremacists. You think everyone thinks like you when actually 13% of Americans do. Then again, most of you probably ARE white supremacists, so that makes sense.

Posted by: Bethany at November 27, 2008 12:47 PM


You say the people here are sheltered and have no life, yet you put 2 hours worth of work into writing a comment here (in which you contrive a racism argument so lacking in evidence it would be laughed out of a court).

Go take some more meds.

Posted by: Panday at November 27, 2008 1:03 PM


Do you have a point of any kind?

Or is it that you are in favor of abortion and feel the need to justify your shaky moral ground by demonizing those of us who feel it is murder?

Posted by: Antara at November 27, 2008 1:25 PM

Bethany: Chill out girl! This is just to Satirical fun. We have 4 years of a presidency with a far left and very inexperienced wannabe messiah leading our nation, so we need something to lighten the mood. If you don't like it, then don't come back LIBERAL WHITE TRASH!!!!!!!!

Why can't Liberals control themselves from coming on to our right wing sites? Anyways, it makes it fun because they always rant and piss on the comments. I love striking a liberal nerve!! ;D

Posted by: Chrissy at November 27, 2008 1:47 PM


Back to the point... do you agree that abortion kills young innocent lives?

Posted by: Aussie-John at November 27, 2008 1:59 PM

And speaking of socialized medicine... in Oregon, the democrat governor wants to pump millions of additional dollars into the "broken" Oregon Health Plan (i.e. socialized medicine program) - you know, the one started by another democrat governor to fix our "broken" health care system - even though the state government is expecting a massive budget shortfall this coming year.

Posted by: PabloD at November 27, 2008 2:18 PM

Bethany is a perfect example of what unfortunately is representative of a large portion of the U.S. population's twisted weltanschauung. She's correct in one regard. Most people don't have a clue as to what's moral nor do they give a rat's ass. I know many a so-called "Christian" who voted for Obama. They support abortion in many cases and so long as policy doesn't hit their pocketbook they couldn't care less. I recall one co-worker who exclaimed vehemently that to raise tobacco and sell it was a sin (I believe this also), but in the same breath, incredibly, she felt that abortion was a necessity and not at all sinful. In other words, she hated smoking but had no problem aborting "an inconvenience". Her conscience wasn't bothered a tad. Yes. Most folks feel this way and THEY"RE the ones who voted for our current representatives, congressmen and the coming administration.

Bethany, though morally bankrupt without realizing it, is also mistaken about this forum, but that's not a surprise given her tendency to judge things on the surface vs. close examination. Sure there are some angry posters but look, I'm an Independent who disliked McCain, did not vote for Obama and who loves liberals (don't care for leftards but by God's law I must LOVE them), yet I've received no hate mail in the 2-3 years of posting. So what gives with you forum members? Why haven't I received hate mail yet?? You're falling down on your job!

Seriously though -- Van Helsing hits the nail on the head with the consequences of Obama signing such an Act. To effect social change, institutions must be hit in the wallet. It's a smart and legit way to erase centuries of moral law once and for all and to introduce a changeling. This had been the MO of the "progressives" for years and it's quite effective isn't it gang? I've maintained throughout the years that if a workplace or company changed their name to "Satan's lair", over 90% of the population, no matter their affiliation would continue to walk in and do business as usual. That one's a sure bet.

Welcome to the NWO folks. Clones like Bethany are the future.

Posted by: fellowes at November 27, 2008 2:36 PM

So, then, I take it this bill would fully legalize partial birth abortion?

Posted by: Adam at November 27, 2008 2:51 PM

Ah Bethany, a typical liberal. You can't win on arguments so you resort to name calling. Ever noticed how liberals LOVE to throw out "racist!" and "omgzzz white supremacist!" to anyone who disagrees with their cult leader Obama?

Well you know what, Bethany? You are AGEIST. Yep. Since you didn't vote for McCain who is a senior citizen, I hereby decree that you hate the elderly. AGEIST!

Posted by: Anonymous at November 27, 2008 2:56 PM

Well, it IS true that liberals hate everyone including themselves and just want to hear the blood-curdling cries of one being murdered - especially the innocent. None of us carry our babies to term. We actually own the most guns and commit the most crime. We love death. We even kill ourselves. No pro-life for me! Killing babies is fun.

Speaking of pro-life, however, Bethany has a point, it's the ones who call themselves God-fearing pro-life Christians that are really hoping that Obama gets assassinated and finding God behind that hope.

Ironically though, these are the same people who cried when Scott Peterson was found guilty.

Posted by: virgomonkey at November 27, 2008 3:12 PM

To all,

Have a great Thanksgiving and be safe.

Bethany won't be having turkey today because right now she's eating lots of crow thanks to Panday, Antara, Chrissy, Fellows, and Anonymous.

I just love when you guys put the smack down on self rightous libbies. TIME TO EAT!!!!

Posted by: Watching at November 27, 2008 3:37 PM

You have an appropriate name, virginmonkey.

Civilized human beings don't fling their excrement in public.

Go back to your cage now.

Posted by: Doug at November 27, 2008 3:55 PM

Raising tobacco is a sin????? Selling tobacco is a sin????? Last time I looked it was still a legal product to grow,sell and consume. That's too much even for me.
By the way have a happy Thanksgiving everyone, yes even you trolls and obabasluts.:)

Posted by: Farmer Ted at November 27, 2008 4:33 PM

You (virgo-ape) referenced that menstrual rag as a credible news source to "prove" that pro-lifers want the Obamassiah dead? Oh pa-lease. Get out of here and grow up.

Posted by: fellowes at November 27, 2008 4:36 PM

There is nothing good about Barack Obama. Not a single thing.

Posted by: Smoke TNT at November 27, 2008 5:42 PM

Hey, you know who else marginalized religion and used new law to crush meaningful church involvement in society? Jacobins, Bolsheviks, Nazis, Maoists etc.

I'm actually having a hard time thinking of any tyranical, murderous, socialist regime who didn't do that.

Posted by: forest at November 27, 2008 6:46 PM

Thanks Forest. Just gave us a lesson in leftist government 101.
The only difference with the incoming administration is -- they're smarter. Using honey and deception is less costly than out and out force. It also wins more converts.

Posted by: fellowes at November 27, 2008 7:14 PM

Bethany, you have it all wrong. As a conservative, I don't want liberals to die. I want them to slowly cook in the rotten stew they've concocted by electing an unqualified Marxist pseudo-messianic cultish pretty boy to the highest office in the land on the basis of his skin color (and his bland, nonsensical elementary school cheerleading about "Yes, we can", change, and hope). You liberals have stuck us all with a nightmare situation of being led by a narcissistic lightweight naif at a time of great national challenge. The guy you idiots stuck us with does not even know where to start. While the media pronounces him to be JFK and Roosevelt and Lincon and Cicero, he is still mumbling campaign babble about "wall street versus main street". We are in some serious shit, now. Let's just wait and see what all the prattling about hopey change accomplishes in the face of Putin building nuclear plants for Tehran, or China deciding the time is ripe to grab Taiwan. You liberals don't deserve death, but you do deserve the not-less-severe punishment of having to live with the consequences of your actions.

Posted by: mega at November 27, 2008 7:31 PM

mega, they'll still howl at you since rational thought doesn't register in there thick, suburban living, xbox360 playing fantasy world.

Posted by: Moonbat Smasher at November 27, 2008 7:48 PM

So far, there are about 20 things on the Big Zero's "The first thing I will do" list.

IMO - the first thing he will do is throw up, followed by crapping his britches, and pissing his panties.

The boy's in WAY over his head. He has no experience and hasn't a CLUE what to do first, second, or 50th.

Posted by: Jimbo at November 27, 2008 7:50 PM

I'm with you, mega. I want the Democrats to get exactly what they voted for too. I believe in justice.

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard. "
~H. L. Menckin

It's going to be a rough couple of years ahead, but Moonbattery's going to get more entertaining by the day.

Posted by: Kevin R at November 27, 2008 8:05 PM

Since the moonbats are the ones who seem to support infanticide, they'll no doubt be the ones getting the most abortions.

This in turn means less children being born to and brought up by moonbats.

This in turn means fewer moonbats for us all.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 27, 2008 11:18 AM

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Moonbats are nothing if not adaptive. Since Roe vs Wade discovered that Democrats have a fundamental human right to murder unborn children, the party of the moonbat were forced to co-opt civil rights causes in order to get the votes of the black people they'd been oppressing only a few decades earlier; now what with immigration and "rights" for illegals they're co-opting the Latino vote, they're on their way to achieving the convicted felon vote (interesting that only one side would be working to get convicted felons onto voting roles, clearly in the expectation that they will be the ones to benefit - wonder why that is?).

Posted by: mandible claw at November 27, 2008 9:34 PM

That's you. You are as disillusioned as white supremacists. You think everyone thinks like you when actually 13% of Americans do. Then again, most of you probably ARE white supremacists, so that makes sense.

Posted by: Bethany at November 27, 2008 12:47 PM

Hey - I saw a Henry Thoreaux documentary that discovered that Hitler used to troll conservative web sites with long, meandering, tenuous and highly insulting polemics.

Therefore I deduce that you are Hitler, or are at least similar to him in many ways.

Look, I just made the exact same argument that you did, in about one fiftieth the time, and just as convincingly.

Good for me.

Posted by: mandible claw at November 27, 2008 9:36 PM

You think everyone thinks like you when actually 13% of Americans do.

Um the election was 46% to 52% even though one presidential candidate was a Democrat and the other one was a socialist.

Where on earth did you drag up 13% as the proportion of conservatives in America?

You'd be toast if any Republican besides McCain had been on the ticket.

Posted by: mandible claw at November 27, 2008 9:40 PM

Here's what I think. I think that the main premise: (Christian Hospitals cannot stay open without public funds) is false.

They can stay open without public funds. I believe they have potential to do better without public funds.

Of course, the next step will be to make at will abortion part of medical licensing.

Posted by: Fangbeer at November 27, 2008 10:11 PM


Did you know that Gays can not legally marry in the state of California because of Democratic Party Voters who denied them that?

Just checking.

Posted by: Oiao at November 27, 2008 11:10 PM

To note worthey that our former tyrant in cheif BILL CLINTON SUPPORTED ABORTION HE VETOED A PARTIAL ABORTION BAN YET WANTED TO SAVE INANIMATE ROCKS,TREES,RIVERS and was a BIG TIME GUN CONTROL ADVOCATE i mean OBAMA and CLINTON their cut from the same liberal demacratic mold

Posted by: Spurwing Plover at November 28, 2008 12:06 AM

You know what I'm going to do?

I'm going to go to a web site inhabited by people who I don't agree with, and tell them that they're all haters, and use some statistics and numbers to try to demonstrate to them that they're fringe-dwelling extremists.

That would be a fantastic and rewarding way to spend my time; since I apparently have nothing better to do now that the presidential candidate I prefered was elected.

Posted by: mandible claw at November 28, 2008 1:14 AM

What a perfect match for their Socialized Healthcare. They won't be able to gain access for abortions...back to the hanger Beth.

Posted by: TED at November 28, 2008 1:24 AM

Planned Parenthood Christmas 'gift' cards

Planned Parenthood, which in past years has promoted a "Choice on Earth" abortion campaign during the Christmas season, has a new outreach, offering Christmas gift certificates to be used for abortions.

Here Beth maybe this will get you through the holidays (this month)....

Posted by: TED at November 28, 2008 3:02 AM

Abortion on demand for slags in demand. Damn that would make a great bumper sticker.

Posted by: Moonbat Smasher at November 28, 2008 6:38 AM

Boy Bethany you really did eat a lot of crow for Thanksgiving. Consider yourself SMACKED DOWN by those that are much more informed than you are. Shut off the liberal media and make it your quest to find other avenues of information, ones that get the facts right.

Posted by: Watching at November 28, 2008 7:18 AM

It's so nice that you all pretend to care about the santity of life.

A few days ago I was on this site, and one of the comments discussed a case in which they had heard about an evicted family squatting in their old home. Now, it's not that I don't think that them squatting in an evicted home was illegal, of course it is...but the poster's response is "That's why whenever you see homeless people in the street, you should piss on them."

Ah yes, pissing on homeless children. Because that's what Jesus would want. You know, I don't think becoming homeless brought them down low enoguh, that didn't really teach them a lesson. We need to piss on them or else they'll never learn.

Then we get the poster who says "I'm an independent, and I think we should all get along" What's the response

You should hang your Pinko ass from a Maple Tree

Do you think you're fooling by pretending to care about unborn children? You're only hitching onto the pro life movement because you feel like it gives you the moral advantage. Any dialogue displayed on this web page shows not one ounce of compassion, and an utter disregard for the value of human life. Jesus didn't teach uis to judge and stone the sinners, he taught us to love them and be compassionate. But you disgusting folks have the NERVE to call yourselves Christians. I DO believe that Jesus would want us to protect the unborn from harm, but also the ALREADY born as well. I don't believe that any true pro life Christian website would say they are against the murder of babies but are FOR the murder of liberals or FOR attacking the homeless.

YOu guys can pretend to care about babies all you want. But your own words betray that it's all a front, and all you value is death and destruction. I don't believe for one second you care about dead babies, or anyone else except yourselves for that matter.

Posted by: Bethany at November 28, 2008 7:18 AM

fellowes, I feel you. I live in a rich suburb near chicago. The church I attend has plently of out-of-touch christians who voted for Obama. Its sad. Anyone who proclaims to be a christian should've voted for someone else. Not Barack Obaby killer. Sad times we live in.

Posted by: conservativeteen at November 28, 2008 7:25 AM

One upon a time I went to the Democratic Underground and they were gleefully praying for the death of Dick Cheney. Clearly everyone on DU only values death and destruction.

I also went to this place called the daily Kos. The site owner was talking about the death of Americans in Iraq and he said "Screw them." Obviously, everyone on Daily Kos only values death and destruction.

I stumbled on a site called Huffington Post. A commenter there was very pleased that Iran was finally going to do something about the Israeli menace on the planet. They were excited for Israel to be wiped off the map. I never went back there. Everyone on Huffington Post only valued death and destruction.

I've been to a lot of liberal sites on the net. They talk about Christians going to hell. They talk about Neocons being tortured. They talk about certain Presidents being assassinated. They talk about getting rid of stupid rednecks once and for all. Based on your burden of proof, Bethany, I'm going to have to conclude that all liberals only love death and destruction. Thanks for your help, Beth.

Posted by: Fangbeer at November 28, 2008 8:28 AM

By the way I gotta say that this part of your comment:

"Jesus didn't teach uis to judge"(sic)

Is pretty Ironic. Do you see the irony too, Beth?

Posted by: Fangbeer at November 28, 2008 8:35 AM


I have been to the same sites that Fangbear has been and read the same things he has. I choose not to respond. I just shake my head in disgust. I don't waste my time or efforts resondiong to the mindless fodder on these sites but what I do get from liberal sites is to see just how hypocrital they are. You're a hypocrit just like every other liberal. How can you judge the bloggers on this site when you and you folks have been spreading hateful propaganda for years? Here...check this site out and you will see what I mean, Go to the "splash screen archives" and take a look. You guys have been spreading the hate for years and so have the leaders on the left. The left bad mouths this great nation on the world stage. Left law makers arguing over whether to fund our troups during war time and calling them murders. I will give you one kudo, you sure are determined to get us to see it your way while these ladies and gentlemen on this site just plain rip you're ass to shreds. go to the " splashscreen archives" hit the "political splash". Enjoy

Posted by: Watching at November 28, 2008 9:29 AM

I think the most trenchant irony is someone accusing those opposed to abortion of being racist.

A disproportionate percentage of aborted infants are

If we Americans supported abortion, liberals would be howling "genocide!"

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 28, 2008 10:46 AM

"Jesus didn't teach uis to judge"(sic)

Because she is a self-absorbed lefty, Bethany/shana probably doesn't get the irony, so let explain it: She is the one passing judgment ("all you guys want is death and destruction") on people who don't agree with her.

Aside from that, her statement about Jesus and judgment is typical of a person who babbles things they've heard other people say about the gospel without bothering to study it herself. As a Christian, we *must* be able to judge the difference between sinful and righteous behavior. When Jesus spoke of not passing judgment (casting the first stone), he meant not that people should keep sinning, but that we should not preclude the opportunity for people to turn away from sin and seek redemption.

Killing babies, clearly a sin. A pregnancy is a temporary inconvenience. An abortion is forever.

Posted by: V the K at November 28, 2008 11:30 AM

pre-war Germany where the right to life was determined by the state. Once we decide it's okay to murder and call it something else, wait till the state shows you their version of the same lie.
Why these pro abortion/infanticide types aren't trembling in their boots about their own lives being in jeopardy because of their support of this moral self-deceit, I'll never know.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 28, 2008 11:59 AM

"Jesus didn't teach us to judge"(sic)

When will these Satan lovers(quoting scripture to justify evil)learn that we indeed are to judge in the sense that as St. Paul tells us to discern good and evil and to admonish those who choose the later. Judgment (punishment for the sin) is different -since vengence is God's alone, he will take care of those who abuse his word deliberatly, to justify sinning in his own way.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 28, 2008 12:05 PM

A couple of people made some off-hand comments and so, according to Bethany, we're all very bad people. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't feel responsible for what other people say nor do I own what other people say.

Bethany, I think that what's going on with you is that you are an old fashioned bigot that hates a group of people - Conservatives - and you are doing everything you can to rationalize your hatred.

Posted by: Kevin R at November 28, 2008 12:08 PM

Kevin R, Perhaps Bethana feels subconscious guilt for supporting the killing of babies, and the only way she can live with herself is to create a fantasy in which conservatives are something worse than she is.

Posted by: V the K at November 28, 2008 12:23 PM

Well, there's certainly many layers, but I found irony in the notion that Jesus didn't get his message across to people like Beth. He didn't teach her, so she's just winging it.

Posted by: Anonymous at November 28, 2008 12:38 PM

Bethana reminds me of that troll who lectured about how angry and hateful conservatives were, and then admitted he broke his TV by throwing his remote at it when Sarah Palin came on.

Good times.

Posted by: V the K at November 28, 2008 1:20 PM

You know your a liberal when you have a bumper sticker reading KEEP ABORTION LEGAL right next to your SAVE THE REDWOODS,SAVE THE RAINFORESTS bumper stickers

Posted by: Spurwing Plover at November 28, 2008 1:56 PM

Actually my favorite triplet of liberal bumper-stickers was one I saw back in 2004.




Posted by: V the K at November 28, 2008 2:25 PM

God will forgive anyone that repents from a wicked and evil lifestyle. Repent means to turn away from the evil thing and turn to christ and walk in christ breath Christ do the Fathers will and once you are a over comer helps others, tell them they can be fee from wickedness. Yes abortion is wrong; God is saying to this nation repent, Jesus christ will wash all your sins away.
Once again study the word of God at (BIBLE.COM)


Posted by: Tonya at November 28, 2008 3:02 PM

I now see why the Catholics only wanted scripture to be interpreted by priests (even though I am a Lutheran). When people say that Jesus teaches us not to judge it drives me bonkers. This does not mean that Jesus does not want us to discern what is right and what is wrong. He does want us to take a stand. Either be hot or be cold. What that means is that we are not qualified nor in a position to condemn someones everlasting soul to eternal damnation. If something is wrong, it is wrong. If something is right, it is right. If someone does wrong, like terminating a life that only God can create, that does not mean that their soul will be damned. If they remain unrepentant and turn away from their baby-killing life style, they will be subject to the judgment of God. However, that does not mean that we as a society have an obligation to remain silent about what we feel is evil. Rather we have an obligation to stand in the way of allowing such evil to persist under our watch -- legally, by electing representatives who promise to end this barbaric behavior and when the topic is brought up in our presence, we need to let people know where we stand on it and why we feel the way that we do.

Posted by: Evilmomlady at November 28, 2008 3:09 PM

V the K,

Its funny you should mention the Kerry/Edwards bumper stickers. Do you notice this same looser trend in the Metro area?

Here in the Gay Bay area, I see a lot of new to 3 year old cars with Kerry/Edwards bumper stickers on them. I mean, the car was bought after Kerry/Edwards lost in '04. Do these people just have stacks of those bumper stickers laying around? Is that also a trend out east?

Also, what kind of message of progressivness does it send when a libbatard puts the 'loosers' bumper sticker on a new car. I just don't get a positive message out of that. The only message is that I'm too dumb to realize that its over and they lost.

Posted by: Oiao at November 28, 2008 3:58 PM

Why is it that those who consider abortion a form of murder remain silent when it comes to the death penalty? The last time I checked the Ten Commandments, it said "Thou shall not kill." Nowhere does it say you must be innocent and unborn or guilty and convicted to qualify. If conservatives want to gain traction on the abortion debate, they need to be more outspoken against the death penalty. Otherwise, the argument comes off a bit hypocritical.

Posted by: Chris at November 28, 2008 4:41 PM

I disagree with 2 of your points.

First, Christians do speak out against the death penalty as evidenced here:

Second I think what you meant when you said "the last time I checked" was "I've never opened a bible" The bible says a whole lot more than "Thou shall not kill." The sixth commandment is one of the most talked about commandments in the entire book. When you make an honest attempt to read the scripture you'll find that all killing is not the same. There's intentional killing, unintentional killing, killing with cause, and killing without cause. The six commandment does not exclude all of these types. The bible prescribes that it is okay to defend yourself using lethal force if necessary, as an example.

One thing is clear though, I don't think the majority of Abortionists can claim self defense, unintentional death, or justice as an excuse for the action.

Posted by: Fangbeer at November 28, 2008 6:12 PM

It is just amazing how out of touch with reality you guys are.

This coming from a person who has who believes in a political philosophy that was born out of mind altering drugs in the late 60's by grown adults who painted flowers on their faces.

Yeah, I'm sure you have a firm grasp on reality. What a joke.

Posted by: Jaeson at November 28, 2008 6:21 PM

The commandment is: "You shall not murder", not the generic "kill". The Hebrew is much clearer than the English translation. Were it "kill" then having meat on the table or defending oneself in battle or at home would be a sin yet clearly by biblical context it isn't. Murderers are supposed to be dispatched to God. For too long the clergy and others in "authority" have failed deliberately to make this point clear. I question as to what god THEY are following by not discerning and providing truthful statements about our Maker's word.

Posted by: fellowes at November 28, 2008 7:16 PM

I've always wanted to post on a conservative blog, so here it goes. I read through all the comments and I was just wondering... how can we really consider pro-choice supporters to be murderers? It seems pretty hypocritical when you think about it. The vast majority of conservatives want to deny healthcare coverage to those who cannot afford it, that government mandated care would be costly and inefficient. However, think about it. Millions of Americans are uninsured and/or underinsured, and when they get severely ill, they die from lack of healthcare. Who are the murderers? We live in excess and it's just so upsetting that Americans die everyday simply because they cannot afford help.
I suffer from a chronic autoimmune disease and I certainly didn't chose it. In fact, millions of Americans don't chose their illnesses. There was a period of time that I could not get insurance because no insurance company would take me, my "pre-existing condition" was the defining factor. Those few months cost me about 60k. Thankfully, I was able to afford the costs, but I cannot image forcing Americans to suffer simply because they cannot afford help.
We're calling these pro-life supporters murderers, but we're willing to let our fellow Americans suffer and die? And for those quoting the bible and hiding behind religion on these issues, how is this not unethical? If we do not take steps to universalize healthcare, we're all murderers. Even if healthcare became affordable, without government mandates, they can still deny coverage to the ones who need help the most, such as myself.
As a first-year medical student, the support for universal care and better medicine is overwhelming. So while we argue about the ethics of abortion, we're forgetting the more important ethical issue: healthcare coverage, not forcing Americans to suffer and die. Of course there is a monetary cost, but at what cost to life? There has got to be a better way. Think about it.

Posted by: JordanA at November 28, 2008 11:14 PM

The vast majority of conservatives want to deny healthcare coverage to those who cannot afford it....

Wrong. We don't believe the government should run health care because in every country it's been tried, it has resulted in lower quality and availability of care.

I don't even consider myself a conservative so much as a pragmatist. I believe in doing what has been proven to work and avoiding what has been proven to fail. Markets work, bureaucracies fail.

And, yes, there are moral components to socialized health care. As a Mormon, I neither smoke, drink, nor engage in promiscuous unprotected sex. I also exercise and eat healthy. But under socialized health care, my taxes would be confiscated to pay the health care costs of people who did not make responsible choices about their health. How is that fair to me? And how is it good for society as a whole to let people make bad decisions without being personally responsible for them?

Posted by: V the K at November 29, 2008 8:09 AM

Jordan, I work in the healthcare field and have for well nigh 30 years so let me give you some perspective on this.

Our healthcare system is far from perfect and I agree that pre-existing illness should not be barred from coverage until a certain period of time has elapsed. BTW, no one is calling pro-life supporters murderers -- I believe you meant to write "pro-choice" didn't you? And no one is hiding behind religion on this one dear. We're all human and we've all suffered illnesses and watched family members die so it's not like we're insulated. Far from it. I do believe however that your opinion is rather one-sided.

I've never seen anyone denied healthcare despite any media hype to the contrary, and furthermore, the "poor", those on disability and people on welfare are far more likely to receive healthcare than those of us who work full-time or who have a second worker in the house. Why is that? Because "the poor" overwhelmingly believe they're entitled. They believe that their lifestyle choices (over-eating, smoking, drug use, sexual depravity) are fine and that WE should cater to them. I know this because I've seen it and lived with it for most of my working life. Where I work at the moment, I encounter outpatients who are demanding, do not expect to wait even ONE minute for services for which THEY will not pay, they refuse to end bad choices that adversely effect their health and they're verbally nasty to boot. I, on the other hand have worked consistently since 1980 and have had healthcare coverage for only half of those years yet I'm in one piece no thanks to any physician. Even with coverage on the very rare occasions that I've seen an M.D. I've been shoved off and ignored because the doc was spending most of his/her time dealing with hypochondriacs and folks bumming off the system. There must accountability with individuals and not blanket coverage -- that would be a disaster. Jordan, your views are naive but given your youth and inexperience I believe that with time and experience you'll begin to change those views. Yes, we do need an overhaul of the system, but I'm not willing to give society's "poor" carte blanche to our already overburdened wallet.

Posted by: fellowes at November 29, 2008 8:29 AM

Here's the big flaw in your argument, Jordan. Health insurance is not the same as health care. Even in your own example you point this out. You got health care even though you had no coverage. How could this be for a 1rst year med student?

Beyond that, where are these millions of Americans dying for lack of health care coverage? What about those that don't have enough coverage? Should we start having murder trials for Medicare and Medicaid recipients who did not have the proper coverage to cure them of their illnesses? Is Medicare responsible for an elderly person who goes into a diabetic coma because they overdid it on Thanksgiving?

I'm willing to cede that people do die for lack of health care....but that happens in EVERY system. People die waiting in line in Europe. People die from a lack of quality medication. They die from shortages and regulations. As a result, they're trying to change their system to be more like ours!

Our argument has always been that universal coverage ≠ universal care. Universal coverage ≠ lower the cost of care. Universal coverage ≠ increase the quality of care. As with most liberal ideology, the treatment doesn't address the root of the problem. All universal coverage really does is delay the symptoms of the problem by taking money from one group to make band aids for another group. The problem springs right back as soon as the people with money run out of it.

So it's clear that your thesis: conservatives are murderers for denying people coverage is false. Coverage does not keep people alive. Quality health care does. And we have that in spades.

Posted by: Fangbeer at November 29, 2008 8:37 AM

Also, what kind of message of progressivness does it send when a libbatard puts the 'loosers' bumper sticker on a new car. I just don't get a positive message out of that. The only message is that I'm too dumb to realize that its over and they lost.
~ Posted by: Oiao at November 28, 2008 3:58 PM

No, no, no - you don't get it. The message isn't the message. Don't think of the bumperstickers on a Leftist's car to be conveying the message that's on the bumpersticker. What those things actually are is like primitive tribal tattoos for cars. Primitive cultures do very similar things. Tribal tattooing is a case in point. Those bumperstickers are like primitive tribal tattoos signifying that the person belongs to a certain tribe. Others in the same tribe see the car tattoo and know the person is one of their own. It's primitive identification. Those bumperstickers are tattoos of tribalism.

Posted by: Kevin R at November 29, 2008 8:55 AM

The goal of cheaper, but still good quality health care is one more reason to be against devoting public money to abortions. It's simple economics. You devote resources to one thing, they aren't available for other uses - like caring for people who are actually sick.

We should also avoid driving hospitals out of business over their refusal to perform abortions. Fewer hospitals means less services available. Longer waits, longer trips to the provider, and higher prices are sure to follow.

Anybody who bitches about high costs should be dead set against public money for abortions and strong-arming hospitals into performing them. If they are rational, that is.

Posted by: forest at November 29, 2008 1:49 PM

V and Fang, I agree with a lot of you guys said. I come from a family of healthcare providers, my parents do not even accept Medicare or Medicaid, and I can understand the economics behind that choice. I even grew up near where Bill O'Riley lives, the gem of American conservatism, so I have had exposure to most sides. I also agree that the poor are not necessarily the problem, since Medicaid covers a major portion of their care. It's the hard working minimum wage-earners who can't really afford insurance, but maybe aren't poor enough to qualify for government sponsored care.
The point I was trying to make was not that we should provide free care to those who do not work nor contribute in any way to society, but that we should be able to help those out who are hard workers, but can't afford the help they need. I've seen so many instances where families had to decide between paying for food and gas or treating cancer.
The cost of healthcare isn't cheap, but it's not because physicians and providers are making bank, it's the prices set by the "free-markets." CEO's of non-profit HMO's all over the country take home millions in income every quarter. The conservative notion that free-markets and private insurance companies will solve these problems is almost contradictory (e.g. look what's going on now...). I wish it were possible, but I don't think we should leave our care, our lives, up to the free markets.
I don't know enough about economics to hazard solutions to these problems, but I'm willing to pay a little more in taxes if it means saving a few lives.
And yes, I am young and naive, I'm supposed to be as a med student, but I feel in America there must be a better way to handle this.

Posted by: JordanA at November 29, 2008 4:43 PM

Leaving aside the moral dimension, if one considers the situation logically, one really has to ask why we don't more actively promote abortion for Liberals.

Liberalism has been characterized, by some, as a form of mental illness, and while it may cure itself with time, the amount of damage it does to society while manifesting itself in it's more virulent forms is significant. Why don't we do everyone a favor? Give Liberals what they want… more abortions, and make Conservatives happier by reducing the amount of grief visited upon them by Liberals.

First, by encouraging more Liberal abortions, we reduce the incidence of Liberalism in the general population by reducing inter-generational transmission. No children are “infected” because no children are born to Liberals.

Second, by encouraging Liberals to experience the results of their actions, we hasten their cure and diminishment of their Liberalism.

Third, by encouraging all Liberals to have abortions whenever they become pregnant, we are really "helping" them to achieve one of their life's ambitions. Certainly a Christian thing to do.

I suggest that every female, married, single, young, or old, presenting herself to the doctor as pregnant be questioned as to her political orientation. If she proves to be a Liberal, she should be encouraged to abort in the strongest possible terms. In fact, if she doesn’t choose to abort, she should be forced to justify her decision as to what possible reason she could have for imposing another Liberal on the country.

Anytime we see a pregnant Liberal, we need to express our heartfelt sympathy with her deplorable condition, and ask if there is anything we can to do to help facilitate the abortive process.

Also, rather than picketing abortion facilities, we need to form “tunnels” and cheer those entering, and thank them for helping to protect the general population from a dreadful illness.

To all Liberals, I fully support your right to have an abortion, in fact, I strongly urge you to have one each and every time the possibility of having a child presents itself.

Yours truly
Charles Darwin.

Posted by: Kicker at November 29, 2008 6:03 PM

Jordan, there is no free market in health care. The insurance industry isolates people from the real cost of treatment. If we applied the same principle to cars, everybody would drive an Escalade, because someone else would be paying for it.

Furthermore, health insurance itself is highly regulated. Insurers are mandated to provide all kinds of coverage, which limits consumer choice and drives up costs.

Also, compliance with regulations dramatically increases the amount of paperwork health care providers are obligated to generate while adding zero benefit to patient care.

And then, there's the trial bar...

The idea that the market has failed health care is based on the flawed premise that there is a free market for health care.

Posted by: V the K at November 29, 2008 7:54 PM

V the K,

Yeah, people often forget how John Edwards got filthy rich off of being a trial attorney and sticking it to doctors and medical insurers, by duping stupid juriors.

Remember when he 'channeled' a dead fetus in his closing arguments?

Slime like John Edwards and a million other low life ambulance chasers are why medical costs have gone through the roof.

Oh, and the majority of them are Democratic Base supporters, because.... it fits.

Posted by: Oiao at November 29, 2008 9:07 PM about these numbers...

80% of all abortions are black babies.

64% of all abortions are coerced.

80% of Americans believe there should be restrictions on abortion.

80% of all Downs Syndrome babies are aborted.

Abortion is quite possibly the most racist, misogynist, anti-disabled act any person can do.

It is an act of cold blooded murder where a child is either (1) vacuumed out of his mother's womb, or (2) scraped out of his mother's womb, or (3) poised and burned with salt water, or (4) delivered part way, then has his head crushed and brains scooped out with a spoon. If the child manages to survive any of this, chances are he'll be left for dead alone in a storage room.

On top of that, after going through this "procedure", the mother is told that the dismemberment of the child growing inside them was "no big deal"...she's offered no counseling, therapy, or resources to deal with the pain in her body and soul from the experience. More than likely, she's given more drugs to make her chemically sterile so she can be sexually available to men (i.e. birth control pills).

Bethany, this is the practice that the liberals are defending.

Take note, that never, not one time, have groups been on the side of declaring others "non-persons" or "property" (e.g. "non-viable") and been right.

Abortion supporters are on the same side as slaver owners and Nazis...and they are zealous for their own "final solution."

Posted by: Mickey at November 30, 2008 7:04 PM