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Great, the final solution to the human problem.

Explains why my Precious Metals and Gold investments are underperforming.

Hmmm.....what time does the power go out at the local bank?

Ayn Rand said something to the effect that: collectivism doesn't lead to a world like 1984, collectivism leads to collapse and chaos.

This has little to do with "collectivism" or any of the other strawmen thrown up by little men who try to use big words.

This has to do with the fact that we in the West all jumped on the anti-apartheid bandwagon in the 80s and screwed over the Afrikaners in the process, destabilizing yet ANOTHER sovereign nation's ways in order to impose a "new order" in our own image.

But, it's not "PC" to turn around and say, "Oh, we were totally wrong when we stood up against apartheid in South Africa", because no one wants the blacks here to get their feathers ruffled.

We worked to bring down the established order in South Africa to free the blacks there from oppression, only to watch as another, far more repressive black regime took hold.

And standing up for oppressed whites is not nearly as fashionable.

This has to do with the fact that we in the West all jumped on the anti-apartheid bandwagon in the 80s and screwed over the Afrikaners in the process, destabilizing yet ANOTHER sovereign nation's ways in order to impose a "new order" in our own image.

"We"??? Why, yes. Yes you liberals did, didn't you. Mandella was so "fashionable" - even on T-shirts, just like that little dead Cuban pig so many of you revere now. Mandella's Marxism just didn't work worth a crap, huh. And now you blame the "West" rather than pissant liberals who just wet their silly little pants knowing white people were running a country on the black african continent. And... how many people have died as a result? No one will ever know except God.

It's amazing how you people rewrite history to suit your delusional little fantasies.

Is "Marxism", "socialism", "communism", "liberalism", your new "Islamofascism"?? HA!

Don't ever change, bimbo.

"bimbo"

Whoa! Never heard that play on 'Jimbo' before.

Wow. You're pretty bright, huh? What - it take you two, three hours to invent that all by youself?

Say... Do you write for Letterman?? No? You're that good, maybe you should apply, huh?

Marxism, socialism and communism are words that have been around for over 100 years and are responsible for over 100 million dead in the 20th century, grinding poverty and utter misery of millions more and the destruction of nations and cultures.
Liberalism has been around for over 100 years, too, and in its true meaning has been responsible for the unleashing of humanity from the yoke of collectivism. Its highest achievement is the United States of America.
This was before evil men in the 20th century hijacked the word, reversed its meaning and turned it into the foul thing it is today, a euphemism for collectivism.
Modern liberalism and its ideological forebears are responsible for death and destruction on a grand scale and the beating down of the human spirit. Now they have a new ally, Islamofascism, to continue their grand tradition.

so, Steve...the words "marxism" "socialism" and "communism" are responsible for millions of deaths?

Learn how to write...Am I really supposed to take you seriously?

you know, Christianity is responsible for 10's of millions of more deaths, and I'm not talking about the word "Christianity", yet I don't see you ranting in a similarly jumbled manner against it.

How about this: Jim-BLOW.

The main difference between South Africa and Zimbabwe is five years.

As for environmentalist mooonbattery, its basic effect is to drive manufacturing out of the USA and to countries like China and Mexico, which then spew pollution with wild abandon. The net effect is that moonbats think locally and act globally.

Anon,
Learn how to think, Shitforbrains.

What a brilliant rebuttal, steve. You can go to the front of the short bus. Hands to yourself, now.

Actually, in absolute terms, socialist and communist governments caused many times more deaths in just one and a half centuries than christianity managed in almost 2000 years.

V,
Well, I am pretty special. If you don't believe me just ask my momma. lol

I didn't have time for a good rebuttal so I just dashed off a quick riposte.

I get disgusted by fools that justify the massive crimes of collectivist ideologies by claiming that Christianity has killed millions. It hasn't.
People sometimes use Christianity to rationalize their evil deeds. Those who do are violating the teachings that are the basis for Christian belief. There is nothing in Christian teaching that commands or justifies evil.
The collectivist ideologies are directly responsible for the murder and misery of millions. It's inherent in their intellectual, moral and epistemological foundation.
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by the moral equivalence of someone too stupid to make the intellectual connection between words and deeds.

steve, my mistake, it looked like you were addressing the anonymous comment immediately above your "sfb" comment about environmentalism increasing pollution by driving manufacturing to China... which seemed like a fairly reasonable comment to me.

V,
Looking back, I can see how that mistake could easily be made.
For clarity I should have addressed my comment to Anon@6:26. I agree with Anon@7:31.

"...claiming that Christianity has killed millions. It hasn't."

It hasn't Steve? (shakes his head at the compelte and total ignorance of some people, but isn't really suprised)

Who can we blame for your lack of fundamental knowledge?

Ever hear of the Holocaust? The Crusades? the Inquisition? Witch hunts? Western Slavery? All perpetrated by people who called themselves Christians, my friend. I could go on and on, but I'll never be able to make up for the education you missed. Sorry.

Oh ,and V the K you continue to be a weasel and a coward.

"learn how to think, shit for brains" is an offensive and inadequate way to respond when you disagree with the poster, yet entirely appropriate when you agree.

How arrogant you are.

Hash,

Still eating with your left hand I see. Tisk - Tisk.

Oiao, still have your head up your ass, I see. tsk,tsk.

BAAAAAAAA, BAAAAAAA, black sheep.

"Ever hear of the Holocaust? The Crusades? the Inquisition? Witch hunts? Western Slavery? All perpetrated by people who called themselves Christians, my friend. I could go on and on, but I'll never be able to make up for the education you missed. Sorry."

The Holocaust was perpetrated by atheists and occultists. As for the Inquisition, witch hunts and slavery, they were all violations of Christian teaching. The Crusades were a series of expeditions ostensibly to take back the Holy Land from Muslim conquerors who were doing very nasty things to Christians and Jews. Some were nothing more than adventures by men wearing a Christian mantle and acting in a very un-Christian manner.
While some of the Crusades started out with righteous goals and upheld Christian belief, some did not.

You can't show me anything in Christian teaching that condones evil because it isn't there.

btw-I have a B.S. in biology with a minor in religion, plus my religious study in the 25 years since I graduated.

I don't claim to know everything about religion or even to be a scholar but I doubt that you could teach me anything about religion.
If the ignorance you've displayed so far is any guide, you're the one lacking in education.

so then you admit that our founding fathers violated Christian teachings, and weren't actually christian at all? Good for you steve..Your "minor" in religion rreally did teach you something.

As for the Holocaust,,,are you telling me that ALL nazis were atheists and occultists? Wow, germany had a lot of them huh.

Actually, nazi soldiers wore belts inscribed "god with us " on the back. I wonder which God they were talking about, steve? I can show you hundreds of examples of the Nazi/christian cooperation, if you are really interested. it's easy enough to find.

Hitler was a Catholic, who consulted with and recieved blessings from the Pope. But I guess he wasn't a real Christian either, nor were a long list of Popes, cardinals, etc?

Basically, what you've done is dismissed millions of people who proudly and enthusiastically called themselves Christians as "not really Christian" because you don't like what they did. Hmmm....isn't that what you accuse muslims of doing when they claim terrorism is not committed by "true muslims"?

Who are these real Christians, i wonder, adn why is it "steve" who gets to say who they are?

Anon@3:12,
That's quite an ignorant, illogical and just plain stupid rant.

The founding fathers were ordinary, fallen men. Some were Christian, some were Deist.
Most members of the Nazi party were followers or joined under duress. Their leaders, the men who committed the Holocaust, were atheists and occultists who used symbolism from many sources to control the people. Few German soldiers outside the SS were Party members.
Hitler was raised Catholic but in his megalomania turned away from the church. The claim that he received blessing and aid from the Pope is a lie. The Pope rescued thousands of Jews from the Nazis.
I didn't say millions of people are "not really Christian". I said that their actions violated Christian teachings. Your hatred of Christianity has twisted your ability to think logically.

Steve, Hitler was a Catholic. most Nazis were practicing Christians.

Pope Pius condoned Hitler and granted him legitiamcy in the Christian world.

I hope that you will look at this link. You have been hoodwinked.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

I still don't understand how your argument is any different than the Muslims who claim that "doing evil" is not inherent in their religion.

I would go so far as to say...that the real Christians are the ones involved in the Holocaust, the inquisition, slavery, apartheid, the witch hunts, and the crusades.

Your type of "real" christian, largely, does not exist.

On April 20, 1939, Archbishop Orsenigo celebrated Hitler's birthday. The celebrations, initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) became a tradition. Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send "warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany" and added with "fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars."

(Source: Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)

There are many many many more examples of this tyoe of thing.

It's highly ironic that this thread exists under a post about South Africa.

Apartheid was perpetrated by devout Christians in SA.

"I doubt that you could teach me anything about religion. "

You are correct, you have proven yourself to be entirely "un-teachable". Don't feel too bad about it, some people's intellectual ability simply hits its peak at a very low level.

You should seek a career in manual labor, or better yet, join the military. They need cannon fodder, and other people can do your thinking for you. Heck, for that matter, look for a job in the church. you can help them identify the "real" Christians. Lord knows they need help.