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Funny thing is, long before people were calling it
a Wiccian symbol , it was used by the Early
Christians to symbolise the five wounds of Christ.

You do realize that Christmas isn't the only solstice holiday, right? Yule (the winter solstice) has been celebrated way longer than Christmas. In fact, the whole reason Jesus's birth is celebrated around this time is because early church leaders thought it would be easier to convert pagans if the date was close to pre-existing holidays. Almost all of the Christmas traditions we follow today are from Pagan holidays (christmas trees, yule logs, exchanging gifts, mistletoe, even the colors). The pentacle is not a sign of the devil; I suggest you actually do some research before you suggest something like that.

I also suggest you actually research other's beliefs-as well as history-before making unfounded accusations and close-minded bigoted statements. Would you have been offended if someone had put up a menorah alongside the nativity scene? Then again, I suppose you would.

I agree, the pentacle is a sign of Satan, but it is used by those who do follow him. Listened to any good death metal lately? So, the authors remarks are not totally off the mark.

As for why the Church chose this time of the year to celebrate the birth of Jesus, why not ask them? I know the whole Neo-pagan thing is cool and a-historical and makes for good sales at Hot Topic outlets, but if you are going to attack a belief, as you said yourself, do your homework.

I used to by the neo-pagan jive regarding why the Church started Christmas, but then I realized that the people who were telling me this are the same folks who say regarding the Church and the bible that the historical data is too sparse to know anything about the ancient world, but you then they would proceed to tell us what 'actually happened' anyway.

Sorry about the type-o's. Went to public schools. (Actually just got off a 24 hours shift on an ambulance)

I agree, the pentacle isn't an exclusive symbol of Satan. Kinda like all Muslims aren't terrorists, but isn't it funny how all terrorists are Muslims.

By = buy.

I used to by the neo-pagan jive regarding why the Church started Christmas, but then I realized that the people who were telling me this were the same folks who say regarding the Church and the bible that the historical data is too sparse to know anything about the ancient world, but then they would proceed to tell us what 'actually happened' anyway.

"but itsn't it funny how all terrorists are Muslims"

OMG hahahahahahahaha *wipes tear* Are you serious?

A TERRORist is a person who does things to invoke TERROR. Oklahoma Bomber? Terrorist. Washington DC Sniper? Terrorist. Charles Manson? Terrorist. ANYONE in history who has done things to invoke terror is a terrorist. The term isn't exclusively copyrighted to what happened on 9-11, my friend.

And, yes, there is PLENTY of historical evidence about why Christmas is around the winter solstice. Any idiot with a library card can find that out. I'm not saying this to poke fun at Christians or to say "HAH! You're a copycat!" or anything. I'm simply stating FACT. There are more religions out there besides Christianity, and they deserve respect as well.

And, just so you know, I DON'T shop at Hot Topic, I don't wear black clothing (I'm more of a bright person, thank you), I don't wear a multitude of jewelry, just my watch and the ring my grandmother gave me, I have normal-colored hair, I don't wear excessive makeup, I think the goth look is stupid, and I am a PAGAN. Most of my friends are Christian and I love them and respect them, and the respect if wholeheartedly given back.

It is when people refuse to respect others that I lose my patience.

I don't even know why I read these articles about ignorant people bashing other people's beliefs. They only upset and sadden me. I will not be responding anymore. I porbably shouldn't have clicked on the link in the first place.

I take it from your response you are one of those who fall into the classification of neo-pagans again who like to lecture Christians regarding the Church and the bible and tell us that the historical data is too sparse to know anything about the ancient world, but then you proceed to tell us what 'actually happened' anyway.

You stated.

"the whole reason Jesus's birth is celebrated around this time is because early church leaders thought it would be easier to convert pagans if the date was close to pre-existing holidays."

Really? Can you show me some evidence of this? Or is this just another example of pagan scholarship that exists only in sound bites? I know the reason the Church started the celebration and it wasn't to bring in the pagans.

Regarding terrorism, I think you missed the point. I think readers on here are bright enough to catch it and I think it would be a waste of time to try and explain it too you.

Hello, people.
I am Wiccan. No, I don't shop at hot topic either, nor do I worship satan.
Wiccans don't belive in satan.
I'm not even going to try and help you learn the truth. Whatever. Just thought you should know that out Pentacle is holy to us, just as your cross is holy to you.

"Just thought you should know that out Pentacle is holy to us, just as your cross is holy to you."

It seems you are just here to throw in too support your team rather than actually read.

As "I" said above,I agree, the pentacle isn't an exclusive sign of Satanism, but it is used by those who do follow him. What is so dang hard about that? Listened to any good death metal lately? They love the pentacle. So, my original statement was in defending the author in that he was not totally off the mark by calling it a satanic symbol. That is all this has ever been about.

There is plenty of evidence that the church took pagan holidays and added Christian overtones to convert the pagans without bloodshed. Look up Pope Gregory the Great. He created Christmas, Easter, and All Hallows Eve (later Halloween). How much do you really think evergreens have to do with the birth of someone who was born in the desert? How much do colored eggs and rabbits have to do with his death and ressurection?

The reason we pagans are getting offended at the mention of our holy symbol being used by satan worshippers and metal bands isn't because it's untrue. We recognize that it's done. That part isn't being debated. We resent being only associated with those groups and the fact that people rarely try to learn about who we really are or what we believe. We are not evil. We are not trying to "steal" your holidays. We are typically peaceful and good people.

The person who removed the pentacle is a vandal. Putting quotation marks around the word doesn't change what they did. It doesn't matter how you feel about it, they broke the law. If the rabid extremest christians (not all Christians fall into this catagory) would take the time to learn about other religions instead of throwing their holy book at the worshippers, they wouldn't see the pentacle as blasphemy and would know that we can coexist without hating one another.

"Look up Pope Gregory the Great. He created Christmas, Easter, and All Hallows Eve (later Halloween)."

The feast commemorating the Nativity of Jesus Christ or (Christmas) was introduced in the middle of the 4th century. Gregory The Great wasn't even born until the 7th century. So, you are wrong on that claim.

As for your claim of Gregory and Easter...

In the second century, St. Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna in Asia Minor, journeyed to Rome to confer with Pope Anicetus regarding the disagreement over the proper date for the celebration of Pascha. Neither was able to convince the other, and they decided that the two practices could coëxist.

The situation was actually messier yet. There existed in practice, because of the way the Hebrew calendar worked, not two but a multitude of dates for the celebration Pascha. Jews and others in the ancient Near East followed a lunar calendar in which each month averaged 29½ days in length. They had twelve months in most years, each month beginning with a new moon. This made the year too short, so an extra, thirteenth month was inserted every two or three years to keep the months in step with the seasons (which depend on the sun rather than the moon).

There were no printed calendars at that time, and no one ever knew exactly how many days there would be in a given month or year. The beginning of a new month was declared when the first sliver of a new moon was sighted in the sky. Of course, observation of the new moon depended on location and weather conditions, thus people in different places often did not start a new month at the same time. Since Pascha was observed on the 14 th of the month—and that depended on local sighting of the new moon—there was no way for Christians (or Jews, for that matter) to plan a united observance of Pascha.

In the fourth century the Emperor Constantine espoused Christianity and made it not only legal but the favored religion of the Empire. The Church suddenly started growing by leaps and bounds, and he gave public buildings for the Church’s use, but he was perturbed to find out about the different practices regarding the date of Pascha.

Constantine convened the First Ecumenical Council in the city of Nicæa in 325 to unify the date of the observance throughout the newly Christian Empire. Unanimously, the bishops gathered at the Council decided to keep the feast on a Sunday. They wanted to retain the symbolism of the Resurrection falling on the day which is both the first day of the week and the eighth day, the Day of the Lord. They agreed that the most important thing was for the Church to demonstrate her unity by celebrating together, whenever she chose to celebrate, without regard to the Jews’ plans. The bishops saw the Christian observance of the Pascha of the Lord on Holy Friday as connected to and in continuity with the Passover of the Old Testament, and they understood that the Resurrection, by definition, follows the Passover. After all, the Church saw herself as the true heir of the Old Testament. She was comprised of both Jews and gentiles, all those who responded to the God of the Old Testament when He came in the flesh.

Following the Council, Constantine sent a letter to all the bishops who were absent to report to them the decisions of the council. The following excerpt of that letter explains some crucial points:

When the question relative to the sacred festival of Pascha arose, it was universally thought that all should keep the feast on one day; for what could be more beautiful and more desirable than to see this festival, through which we receive the hope of immortality, celebrated by all with one accord and in the same manner? It was declared to be particularly unworthy for this, the holiest of festivals, to follow the calculation of the Jews….

So, again "Easter" was celebrated long before Gregory was on the scene.

You know, I could go on, but I agree with you, people really should learn what others believe. You have clearly demonstrated that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Christian history. You just want to keep putting out the sound bites I mentioned earlier in a previous post.

A long time ago, Christians cared about converting pagans, but their traditions were too deeply rooted in their culture. So Christianity adopted the traditions to make it easier for them to call themselves Christians. I don't see why people are getting all defensive about that. It's a perfectly decent action.

Though I guess tolerance was also once valued by Christians.

I could care less as to why Christmas is celebrated when it is or the way it is.
It just seems to me that trashing another's beliefs (pagan or christian) is hardly in keeping with the spirit of the holiday. I figure that putting up religious displays from all faiths encourages understanding and tolerance...course if tolerance threatens your own faith you'll definately want to squelch anything that encourages understanding. I hope you all have a truly blessed Christmas, a happy Yule and a merry New Year.

I agree, tolerance was once valued by Christians and still is. read the above exchange. How many times were Christians called ignorant by being told that that we didn't want to know the "truth" and other such statements. Clearly it is our little sky larking friends who do not know, nor care to know what the truth is with regards to history and practice. Gregory the great is the evil man who stole all the pagan festivals in the attempt to convert all the pagans. It was a "group of men" who decided etc.

When the neo-pagans put a pentacle in the manger scene, was that acting out of tolerance? No, they were just wanting to rub it in the nose of Christians and they used the PC police to do it.