Stupid fucking historically-illiterate MoonBats...

The Pope was against capital punishment.

It comments such as this spewed by Freedom From Religion crowd that makes me wonder what came first, the idiotology or the moonbat?

LOL Anna....

Like I said before, it's all about RESPECT. A word moonbats don't understand.

(to extend the thought:) And here I was thinking that the pope was Roman Catholic. I guess in their warped, mind-numbing 'bat-view, the next pope, well, she should be a secular humanist.

"the next pope, well, she should be a secular humanist"

Also a Marxist and practising homosexual to seal the scenario nicely.

"ROME, April 6 (AFP) - The successor to Pope John Paul II should be open to a changing world and refrain from setting "doctrine in reinforced concrete", French Cardinal Philippe Barbarin said Wednesday."

MORE here:
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=25&story_id=18815&name=French+cardinal+calls+for+a+Pope+open+to+change

Hi, I thought I'd add my views on this.

I'm sure the Pope was a nice guy and that he had good intentions. But that's not really the issue here. My own problem with the Pope is the whole AIDS / contraception issue. Firstly, the argument that condoms have tiny holes in them that allow HIV/AIDS through is rubbish. There are of course sometimes defects, but condoms dramatically reduce the likelihood of contracting STDs over unprotected sex. The abstinence-only line pushed by the Catholic church (as well as the Bush administration) is unrealistic. If most Catholic priests can't remain celebate how can they expect other, non-indoctrinated people to? Under the direction of the Pope, the Catholic church actively denied (and still denies) a medical fact -- that condoms reduce the likelihood of contracting STDs -- in order to push forward some supposed moral values. But what sort of moral values are they which value a bit of wank as more important than a human life? It really is beyond me, but if anyone would like to explain to me why a bit of sperm is more sacred than a person's life then I'm quite happy to hear your arguments.

Regards,
Mark

PS: TripleNeckSteel - that site wasn't suggesting that John Paul II supported executions etc., it was saying that the Catholic church had throughout history done all of those things, which it has (have a look at any good encyclopaedia) - alongside tacit involvement in the Nazi persecution of the Jews during WWII, which he was asked to apologise for (but didn't) when he visited Israel in 2000. I'm not saying that he should or shouldn't apologise for any of that, but that's the truth.

"If most Catholic priests can't remain celebate how can they expect other, non-indoctrinated people to?"

Any statistics and sources?

And I say the earth is flat.

You can have your opinion but it has nothing to do with facts.

What the hell do you mean by tacit execution?
Do you know that Hitler persecuted all Christian religions?
Dis you read any Jewish commentaries about the Pope?
No apologies?
Wojtyla even identified Anti-Zionism witk ant-semitism.

Do you understand sexual proctices in Africa?
The Pope understood.

Condoms won't fix it.
Change of practices will.

You are a moonbat.

Felis,
Thanks for your charming reply.

"If most Catholic priests can't remain celebate how can they expect other, non-indoctrinated people to?"

Any statistics and sources?

A few examples from your beloved Fox News:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

And I say the earth is flat.
You're wrong.

What the hell do you mean by tacit execution?
I find that it often helps to read what someone's said before commenting on it. I didn't say "tacit execution", I said "tacit involvement in the Nazi persecution of the Jews". (a dictionary also helps. You can click on any of those words in that quote for a dictionary.com definition)

Examples of the Catholic church's tacit involvement in the Nazi persecution of the Jews?

Reichskonkordat - in return for the "right to freedom of religion" (except for Jews), and the independence of the Catholic church in Germany:-
Article 16 - oath of allegiance of the Bishops ("I swear and vow to honor the constitutional government and to make my clergy honor it")
Article 32 - Clericals may not be members of or be active for political parties.

Instead of publicly condemning Hitler's regime, the Reichskonkordat was seen by the Catholic Centre Party in Germany as approval or acceptance of Hitler's regime. It was this apparent approval that pushed them to accept Hitler's Enabling Act in 1933 (which effectively gave Hitler dictatorial powers)

See also the Simon Wiesenthal Center on this.

That said, towards the end of the war the Pope did start to come round to the idea that perhaps

Do you know that Hitler persecuted all Christian religions?
Not to the extent that he persecuted the Jews. Christian faiths were largely left untouched, unless the followers of those faiths spoke out against the Nazi regime.

No apologies?
He did apologise for Christian persecution of Jews throughout history: "I assure the Jewish people that the Catholic Church ... is deeply saddened by the hatred, acts of persecution and displays of anti-Semitism directed against the Jews by Christians at any time and in any place," the Pope said.

He did not, however, apologise for the silence of the Catholic church during the holocaust.

Do you understand sexual proctices in Africa? Condoms won't fix it. Change of practices will.
People shag. Sexual practices in Africa are not intrinsically different from those in the rest of the world. Condoms stop AIDS. Regardless of faith or opinion, that is a FACT. Look at Uganda, for example. The Uganda Aids Commission has coordinated policies that have brought the AIDS rate down from 18% to 6% in the last 12 years. Pretty impressive. And they strongly encourage condom usage.

Abstinence is of course good advice for reducing AIDS in Africa. But it should be only one option. To criminalise the use of condoms is in itself criminal, when you consider how many people will and have died as a result of this dogmatic line being pressed forwards.

You are a moonbat.
And you are a fool if you cannot recognise the terrible suffering that this totally unnecessary "abstinence-only" policy has created. Shame on you.

I didn't finish the following sentence in my above post:

"That said, towards the end of the war the Pope did start to come round to the idea that perhaps"

... the Catholic church should be doing something about the persecution of the Jews. As the Simon Wiesenthal Center says:
"The attitude of the pope toward Nazi officials "dramatically changed" after September 1942, when Myron Taylor told him that the Allies were determined to achieve total victory. This would suggest that for Pius XII considerations of Realpolitik were more important than moral principles."

Mark, the mistaken call it a holocaust. In a classical sense a holocaust is an offering to a deity. Agamemnon offered up one of his daughters as a holocaust for fair winds so he could lay seige to Troy. To an observant Jew, the death of six million fellow beleivers is the Shoah, it is the undoing of G-d's creative force or chaos from order.

No one is willfully denying the Catholic Church's part in the past with regards to relations with Abraham's children and what that has caused. Johannes Paulus II was the first Pope of modern times to build bridges of understanding between the Catholic Church, the other Christian faiths, Orthodox Churches, Judaism, and even Islam while apologzing for many of those past wrongs. He even affirmed in his capacity as Pope that the children of Abraham their covenant with G-d still applies thus removing one of the lingering 'reasons' for Jew hatred. Or do you want to deny the Rabbis and Imans mingled in with Catholic and Orthodox clergy at his funeral?

Mark, stop arguing that the standards as taught by the Catholic Church of self control, discipline, and faithfulness should be lowered because some people fall short and become sinners. Instead of wallowing in sour whine, why not look inwards, correct the failings, and make a new start at being a better person? We all stumble, it is what we do after the stumble that makes us people worthy of trust and admiration.

Anna,
"the mistaken call it a holocaust" I really don't care what some people might call the holocaust. I don't really want to get into an argument about it because it's utterly irrelevant in this discussion, but 'holocaust' HAS become (rightly or wrongly) the term used to denote "The genocide of European Jews and others by the Nazis during World War II" (dictionary.com). Whether or not it's linguistically 'wrong' really doesn't matter, it's become accepted usage in everyday English (much the same as the way the word 'gay' has evolved).

Anyway, having wasted five minutes of my life explaining the obvious I'll now turn to your equally boring second paragraph. Felis obviously didn't care about the Catholic church's (effective) complicity in the slaughter of 6 million Jews. Look at his comments. No, nowhere did I say that this Pope hadn't reached out to other religions. All I'm saying is that he didn't apologise to Jews for the Church's silence during the persecution under the Nazi regime. Have a look at my posts, and by all means if I did anywhere mention otherwise then quote me.

On to your third and final paragraph of your trilogy of absurdity. No, I won't stop arguing (as is my prerogative) that the Catholic church shouldn't be promoting so heavily abstinence-only projects, which have undoubtedly had a severe and significant impact (namely an unnecessary slow and painful death) on millions of people in Africa. I was actually quite astonished by the end of your first sentence of said paragraph: "because some people fall short and become sinners". What about children born of HIV+ parents? The Catholic church has, through its actions, decided that they should only live a short life of increddible suffering. What about them? What supposed "sin" have they carried out? I would be very interested to hear your justification of that sentence.

"Instead of wallowing in sour whine, why not look inwards, correct the failings, and make a new start at being a better person?"
Ah yes, condescension. The preserve of those who have lost the argument but refuse to accept it. However, that aside, I'd be quite happy to contact you when I become enlightened to (and admire) the fact that a bit of wank is more important than a child's life. Don't wait up, though.

One should care about the proper useage of words for it is with words that ideas and thoughts are communicated. To use words in a slap-dash fashion implies a certain imprecision of thought. Gay in its original meaning is a classic example of a word being twisted to mean something completely else, going from meaning a bon vivant to meaning someone is homosexual. A very large twisting n'est ce pas monsieur? Of course redefining words to have meanings other than the original can also be the work of a wordsmith with an agenda. Gay's orignal transformation is an example of that while in the more common argot, gay has become a slap-dash perjorative to mean that is so stupid. One has to be very careful in selecting one's words least there be a misunderstanding.

Thanks for your rather profound drivel there Anna. Though it appears that, yet again, you have singularly failed to respond to any of the points I put to you.

One could be as arty-farty as you and speak fluent French or German to you, but one chooses not to, because (as you have shown) it would make one out to be a pretentious twat.

Mark, it's really impressive that you speak French and German. I even have to agree with you about the world being round. But I'm far from convinced that the Catholic Church is complicit in Nazi genocide. What I know for sure is that John Paul II was no fan of genocidal totalitarians, whether they called themselves Nazis or communists.

Thanks Van, you're a pal.

Whether or not you believe that the Catholic Church was complicit (or turned a blind eye) in Nazi genocide doesn't really matter all that much. What does matter is if you believe (and can argue) that the Catholic church's promotion of abstinence-only policies for dealing with AIDS are not causing terrible suffering in the world today.